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'No' to rec center, 'Yes' to the rest

By Jodi Rogstad and Baylie Davis
news@wyomingnews.com

AARON ONTIVEROZ/WTE Kari Kivisto, right, and Shannon Youmans react to early results that indicated Proposition 4, a $55 million recreation center, likely would not pass Monday night at First Interstate Bank. Both women work for the city Parks and Recreation Department and supported the proposition.

CHEYENNE -- The people of Laramie County did not go for a new community and recreation center in the Capital City.

With support from 45 percent of the voters in Tuesday's sixth-penny sales tax election, the $58 million facility ($55 million was on the ballot) will not be built in Cheyenne, unless city leaders find some other opportunity to fund it.

Proposition 1 passed with little doubt, even in the earliest returns, with nearly 68 percent of voters supporting a Greenway extension and an indoor-outdoor shooting range.

Despite vocal opponents of Proposition 2 who thought the airport did not need $1.5 million to pay for designing a new terminal, 65 percent of voters said yes.

Additions to the Archer Complex also did well, despite little promotion from supporters. Just over 53 percent of voters said yes to Proposition 3.

But the rec center was the centerpiece on the ballot. After deciding not to fund it with land sales, the city decided last year it should go to the sixth-penny, or specific purpose, tax.

After several years of planning, dozens of public meetings and with construction documents in hand, voters turned it down.

This is the second time voters have not supported a recreation facility for Cheyenne: In 1996, voters rejected spending $20 million in sixth-penny sales tax money on a recreation facility.

"In spite of a lot of political rhetoric and a lot of political fluff trying to say it was a need, most voters can think on their own, and I'm glad of that," Burns Mayor Vernon Testerman Jr. said. "Hopefully it's a wake-up call to the Cheyenne political leaders to say, 'Hey look, we need to think about what we're doing next time.'"

In the future, a smaller-scale project might pass, Testerman added, but this one was just too much.

Out of 35,542 registered voters, 19,415 cast ballots, including about 6,000 who voted absentee. That was 55 percent voter turnout; 60 percent turned out for the last sixth-penny election in 2003.

Proposition 1 - Approved

The proposition that includes a Greenway bridge and a new indoor-outdoor shooting range on the Archer Complex passed very handily: 13,154 voters were in favor of it, while 6,261 were against it.

As well liked as the Greenway is, quite possibly, hunters and trap shooters wanting the new $3 million indoor-outdoor shooting range carried the day.

"I'm sure all the shooters - if they have a place to shoot or not - always want another range," said Dick Smith, president of Cheyenne Public Shooting Park Corp. "But I'm sure in Wyoming there's more gun people than Greenway people."

Tuesday's victory was especially sweet for Smith.

Since 1991, he's has been seeking some way to get an indoor-outdoor shooting range built. Laramie County has a number of shooting clubs, but no public facilities.

"Now it means I really have to go to work, finding people to build it, run it and manage it, all that stuff," Smith said. "But that's good."

He said he hopes with the help of revenue bonds, "we should be able to shoot there in two years."

Included on the ballot was $2.8 million to add nearly four miles of off-road pathway and a safe passage from Nationway to Holliday Park, which could take the form of a bridge.

For Shane Smith, director of the Cheyenne Botanic Gardens, passage means $750,000 for design work for repairs, renovation and expansion of the greenhouse.

Depending on land sales to fund the building itself, Smith hopes construction will start in 2010.

"After 30 years of existence, we're proud and honored," Smith said. "This is our first ballot issue. It's confirmation we've been doing the right thing for 30 years - doing more with less, trying to be frugal."

Also on the ballot were:

n $300,000 toward renovation of the Burns elementary school for public space: offices for government and for lease, a recreation center and a day-care center.

"It's something that we can use for everything, especially in a small town," Testerman said. "We've worked hard for that."

n $855,000 to build a new Pine Bluffs day-care facility.

"If we're going to keep our young people here, we've got to supply that service," said Pine Bluffs Mayor Leonard Anderson.

n $1.6 million to remodel the Pine Bluffs Community Center.

n $316,000 to pave the parking lot and resurface the swimming pool at Reher Park and make improvements to the Pine Bluffs City Park.

n $60,000 for a new cemetery sprinkler system at Pine Bluffs Cemetery.

Proposition 2 - Approved

A vocal opposition forecast a rough ride for the Cheyenne Regional Airport's request to set aside $1.5 million to design a new airport terminal. On Tuesday, that opposition proved ineffective, with 65 percent of voters approving Proposition 2.

Last year, 16,496 passengers boarded flights at the airport. Airport officials say it needs an updated terminal, which could be an economic development asset and provide additional space for another carrier should one want to locate here.

Construction would begin in 2015.

"It's really just the first step in what's going to be a tremendous asset for the city," airport manager David Haring said.

Despite the resistance to the proposition, Haring said he didn't find it too difficult to get it passed. The need for an updated gateway to the city and draw for businesses outweighed the relatively small amount of airport traffic, he said.

"It's as much of a gateway as the 'Welcome to Cheyenne' sign," he said.

Pine Bluffs had, arguably, one of the most critical projects on the ballot: $2 million to tap into additional water sources and enlarge some water mains. The town of more than 1,100 in eastern Laramie County is drying up: Last summer, three of its five wells went dry, and another is working at half the capacity.

"We're really, really, really thankful and real elated for this to be happening," Pine Bluffs Mayor Leonard Anderson said. "We are looking for water and got some options with this money that's going to get us where we need to get."

Burns asked for $1.5 million for town water improvements in preparation for its new elementary school.

"To me, this was the most important thing that we needed," Testerman said. "It's a great victory for the small towns and what we need here."

Laramie County sought $817,732 for upgrades to its computer system and building security. This would provide a backup storage system, which county officials say is needed, especially for law enforcement.

With the passage of the proposition, Laramie County Commissioner Jeff Ketcham said he's glad to know the records of the county will be safe if a catastrophic event were to occur.

Other projects in Proposition 2 included:

n $1 million for Albin for sewer line improvements and street repair.

n $560,351 for Albin for a new sanitation truck, Dumpsters and a road grader.

n $137,086 for Burns to buy off the lease for its police vehicle and a new sanitation truck.

n $322,000 for Burns sewer and lagoon improvements.

n $64,000 for Burns street dust control.

n $1.2 million for Pine Bluffs sewer main and electrical system upgrades.

n $370,000 for Pine Bluffs to replace snow removal trucks and police vehicles.

n $250,000 for Pine Bluffs to fund a four-year supply of crack, chip and fog sealing.

Proposition 3 - Approved

The $30 million Archer Complex infrastructure proposition passed by a narrow margin Tuesday with 53 percent of votes, meaning the Laramie County coroner will have permanent new facilities for autopsies and the morgue.

"When we purchased Archer in 2004, it was purchased with the future of Laramie County in mind. And now that vision is becoming a reality," Ketcham said. "The voters have given us the vision."

Going forward, he said, community involvement will be important to "be sure that what we're doing is what the people of Laramie County want us to do," Ketcham said.

Four years ago, Laramie County bought 876 acres from the University of Wyoming, which served as a research station. It is located nine miles east of downtown Cheyenne, just south of Interstate 80.

Already, the Cheyenne Cycle Club has built a motocross track there, and the Cheyenne Public Shooting Park Corp. sought nearly $3 million in sixth-penny money to build an indoor-outdoor shooting facility under Proposition 1, which passedTuesday.

The $30.6 million will build new facilities for the coroner, Public Works, Emergency Management, the University of Wyoming Cooperative Extension Office, and Planning and Development. It also will lay the infrastructure for the acreage - roads, gas, sewer, water and electricity. That infrastructure will allow the county to sell shovel-ready land for a business park.

The proposition was rather quietly supported, and Ketcham added that he's "tickled" with the result.

He also wanted to thank the voters.

"You can't ever underestimate what they're going to do," he said.

Proposition 4 - Rejected

Voters did not support a recreation center for Cheyenne. The $55 million in funding toward the facility went down by 1,712 votes: 8,851 voted yes, and 10,563 voted no.

At $58 million and 170,000 square feet, it would have been the largest project the city has taken on.

Mayor Jack Spiker had predicted in the days leading up to the election that it would pass with 65 to 70 percent of the vote. He had been encouraged by the $10,000 poll paid for by the political action committee supporting Proposition 4.

Since the poll was taken, he said, there's been a lot of bad news about rising food and gas prices and the recession, which probably hurt the rec center.

"I'm just very, very disappointed," Spiker said. "I guess I didn't see it coming. ... For the life of me, I can't think of what we could have done better. The voters have spoken, and we'll move on. ...

"(My wife) Karen and I were in Greeley a couple of weeks ago, we visited their rec center, and it was jam-packed with kids having a good time. I'm disappointed for our community. Maybe another time or source of revenue."

"It's kind of a bummer," said Todd Feezer, the special projects director for the Parks and Recreation Department.

He thought he had spoken to nearly 9,000 people over the weeks and months, giving presentations to groups and answering their questions.

"I don't know if it was any one thing," Feezer said. "It was an exciting process to go though, but I'm glad it's over."

Opponents of the facility were vocal, especially in the month leading up to the election. The cost of the facility was at the top of the list, followed by its proposed location and the fact that it had fitness facilities that would compete with private health clubs.

Local resident Bertie Price said she was relieved upon hearing the results of the election.

"The rec center was too big," Price said. "What they proposed fit in a population triple the size of Cheyenne."

She added the city is faced with more important issues than expanding recreation - like the water supply and the nearly full landfill.




Reader Comments

jack quirk wrote on May 14, 2008 4:37 PM:

" It has been a week now, time to drop the blogs about the electiion and get back to being a newspaper.
The rec center died, put it to rest! "

anything wrote on May 14, 2008 1:52 PM:

" Alot of you are saying what are we going to have for the kids. There is a boys and girls club in this town. There is a fee for the school year of ten dollars, yes for the year. There is a summer fee, but it is the least expensive in town. The kids get to do stuff here but teh also get to go to Denver and get educated at the air and space mueseum. I have also heard they are going to be going to the dinosaur dig in Thermop. I believe they are also in the process of building a new place with a gym adn some neat stuff. That is what there is for kids in this town. They get ot learn and do some pretty cool stuff. "

Mothers Day wrote on May 14, 2008 1:03 PM:

" It's not nice to fool the voters into believing that they saved money by voting down the Rec. Center. This cost will only be passed on to them two fold by doing away with the monies paid in taxes by non-residents. CO$T and QUIRK and others do not tell you the whole story. It's just easier to avoid the truth and fool the voters. "

Wreck center wrote on May 14, 2008 1:00 PM:

" It will be on the November ballot! Spiker has spoke as has Ralphy The phoenix phoney "

To Runner Chick wrote on May 14, 2008 12:58 PM:

" Cheyenne should make the committement to a community recreation center and event complex. I think the city needs to discuss the vote and identify different views that led to the defeat of the tax. Obviously the idea for a community recreation center is a good idea. Look at other Wyoming communities that support and use Rec Centers. What segment of the population didn't vote or voted No. Do we have such a transient population that the community isn't cohesive and doesn't want to invest in itself. Hopefully the answer can be found to allow for the construction of a large multipurpose recreation center even as the cost to construct this climbs. If Location is the problem let's discuss location, if access for children is needed let's make this committment. If it is apathy on the part of voters to assume that a great idea which is paid for by resident and non-residents would pass let get out the vote. Do we need a special election to get this before the voters again? Let the committee for the passage of Rec Cen regroup. Who are the leaders that will stepforward? "

Leave It wrote on May 14, 2008 11:53 AM:

" Let it go already!!!! "

wyorebel wrote on May 14, 2008 9:14 AM:

" Anti Growth voted no and one this round again. Some day the anti growth crowds will be out numbered but until then this blog and agruement are done "

Something For The Money wrote on May 14, 2008 8:56 AM:

" I for one was taught that when I spend money (i.e. the 6 penny tax) I get something for it. Doesn't that compute? You go to the store you bring home the bacon. Where is the community's Recreation Center? I am paying for nothing at this point except County projects, the Greenway expansion and the Botanic Gardens. Did you know that CASE did not support the Botanic Gardens. She thought it was spendthrift for the community to commit to this project. NOW its popular. The Recreation Center has so much to offer Cheyenne and develop a plan to be self-sufficient. Let tourism pay for the Center. Let user fees help with programs and atletic fields for sports. Build it and people will come to use and love the REC CENTER. I can bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan Cheyenne, Call your council person for a new vote. "

SS Lives wrote on May 13, 2008 5:55 PM:

" SSers would love to see this blog come to an end because the more they post the more their ignorance and selfishness masked in stupidity shines through. But people like, who sat on the sidelines before the election, are now in the game and ready to expose the SSers for who they truly are: a sorry and sour bunch of vocal malcontents who would rather see this city and county wither and die -- albeit at the end of a new road to nowhere. "

HighHopes wrote on May 13, 2008 5:01 PM:

" Stupid and Selfish. That has unfortunately always been Cheyenne. Here is high hopes that somehow someway people in Cheyenne will build a recreation center that is handicapped accessible, open to seniors, the community, and Laramie County children. Of course now the tax on the center won't be proportionaly, won't be supported by everyone that spends their money in Cheyenne. Let's wait while costs go up and Cheyenne loses jobs, Wait the retirees don't care, the military doesn't care, the demographic that wants family and community recreation doesn't live in the county. Of course we supportd the shooting range, the greenway, the Archer complex and these are legitimate 6 penny tax issues, what didn't Cheyenne get with the Rec Center. Doesn't anyone in this town know how to have fun and develop a healthy life style. I really hoped that Cheyenne had more on its mind than CFD and the rodeo. "

ChangeCanHappen wrote on May 13, 2008 12:08 PM:

" To RT: That is my point exactly. I think as a community Rec Center, Cheyenne needs to find away to guarantee that every child in Laramie County will have access to this facility. Southside, Eastside, Northside, Westside. Free to all children. Paid for my grants from Dept of Health, Private Business, School Districts, Boys and Girl Clubs. Where there is a will there is a way. I didn't want the Rec Center for a few I wanted it for all. People need to understand The City of Cheyenne's commitment to allow access to all children to this facility. I think that is part of why the proposal got voted down. It was looked upon as a rich man's counrty club. It's a specific facility tax that benefits all in Cheyenne. Be inclusive and find a way to may it happpen. CASE&Layborne as usual haven't been on the side of any new ideas. Did this oddcouple talk about how Ward I children would have access to the facility. Of course not they don't care that children in Cheyenne need recreational opportunites. "

Tune It Up wrote on May 13, 2008 9:45 AM:

" Maybe the proposal for the recreation center does need some fine tunning. I would have preferred to have it built as currently designed, but lets add more
Green features to the facility. Maybe a atrium that is passive solar to help defrey costs. It's a no brainer that Cheyenne needs to get its foot in the door for alternative energy, whether it's solar, wind, geo-thermal or inceneration of garbage. Design is the key to passage. Let's get Green for the Rec Center. And Youth can volunteer and bring cans to help pay the user fees. The cost of ignoring your health is enormous. So all couch potatoes unite for change and a facility that is open to meet your needs. Add sky lights, more windows, plantings and energy savings. It might cost more but the savings should be able to offset the initial cost. Get back to the drawing board. We don't have time to wait forever. Cheyenne should know that we have to do things for ourselves the state isn't handling our money to anyone these days. "

you people . . . wrote on May 13, 2008 9:42 AM:

" With gas prices going up who's to say you'll be driving around town to do this and that with your kids anyways! The rec center gives opportunity to keep your children out of trouble and offers you the opportunity to do your own work out while the kids have fun. The staff of the rec center wouldn't be "babysitters" as you so lightly put it! they would do their jobs to the fullest in serving the community as they have in the past and will continue to do for years to come! Stop being close minded and see that it wouldn't just benifit todays society...but also the generations to come!!! "

ChangeHappens wrote on May 13, 2008 8:35 AM:

" I am sure with summer around the cornor and children out of school that the thought of a recreation center that offers programs to children would be appealing or a family night out for a swim with slides, high velosity pools, an indoor or outdoor aquatic facility, and something to get and keep in shape. It wasn't the cost, or the money or the location, it was just that Cheyenne is a town that has become home to a large retired military population that has become use to getting it all for free. How many services are provided for the military and their families that the rest of Cheyenne can't enjoy. Of course this segment of Cheyenne begrudges the residents any crumb. Let's celebrate the military since their ranks are fading. The six cent tax was not about fixing roadways, or completing projects already approved it was about a future for people who call Cheyenne home. Oh and then the county folks who want Cheyenne to support their projects but don't want to support needs for Cheyenne. Never again put anything for the county on the ballot. It will not pass. "

blah blah blah wrote on May 13, 2008 3:55 AM:

" This article has GOT to GO. It is old and stupid. You took the baby killer case off of the front runner but you kept this trash going? Get over it already this is old news and it is starting to stink. All of the idiots who want a rec center are spending more time on their computers blabbing then on working out anyways. "

JD wrote on May 13, 2008 3:21 AM:

" NO NO NO NO NO NO. How much more simple can it be? Is Cheyenne filled with mentally handicapped people? Do you know what NO means? It is over and done. It will not happen. Get over it and go home to your mommy. She might be the only one who will give in to your crying and whining cuz you didn't get your way. Boo hoo. "

CFNCG wrote on May 12, 2008 11:13 PM:

" If Cheyenne really wants a "New Recreation Center", Why doesnt the City of Cheyenne just approve the "Power Ball" Lotto and Scratch Off games. Then a portion of those proceeds can go to the funding of the Rec Center. More Cheyenne Residents drive to the Colorado border to buy lottery tickets every year. If you want Cheyenne Money to stay in Cheyenne then let the Cheyenne community keep money in Wyoming instead of Colorado. "

David wrote on May 12, 2008 9:35 PM:

" Yep, "Ignornace" is a big problem.

Good job RC!

What part of the vote "No" did you not understand?

I'm sure the criminal city council will forge ahead against the will of the voters and you will get your wish.

Hope you feel good when your recreation is paid for by stealing from your neighbor.

You "yes on 4" people are worse than common bankrobbers.

At least the robber has to take some risk.

You guys take no risk at all to steal from your neighbor. "

SS Lives wrote on May 12, 2008 5:34 PM:

" Reply to NOT -- No vote lacked all common sense. Consider your reasons-- COST -- $300,000 for Burns office remodel, day care and REC CENTER. $1,000 per resident of Burns. CHE rec center, $55 mill, or $1,000 per resident of CHE. LOCATION: If the FAA had a problem it wouldn't be done. SIZE: Right for city this size, but really should be bigger to account for future growth. Case in point, the so-called Civic Center. Can't handle anything more than a mid level act. PS, I stand corrected on Bud plant if that is case. "

Cry Babies wrote on May 12, 2008 2:19 PM:

" It was voted down grow up and quit whining teach your kids some ethics you did not get your baby sitters quit teaching your kids bad manners "

JA wrote on May 12, 2008 1:32 PM:

" One other thing is it just coincedence that very few of the southside kids will be able to go to the rec center or have transportation to get there. The mall is already bad enough with teenagers running amock and cussing every other word. Clean up the mall and then maybe I would agree with all the people saying the rec center won't be another huge babysitter. "

JA wrote on May 12, 2008 1:29 PM:

" You seriously still think we NEED a 55 million dollar rec center. What about a 22.5 million rec center and actually fix our roads that are rotten and no longer patchable. How can we even get to the rec center when we won't have the roads in three to four years worth driving on. "

Volunteer wrote on May 12, 2008 1:12 PM:

" You want something for your kids to do? Volunteer-both you and your kids. Volunteering used to be the way but now everyone is lazy-using the excuse "I am too busy". Some may be too busy but I suspect that means to busy watching TV instead of participating as a family with the kids. Whatever happened to volunteering to pick up trash or helping the neighbor or an old person down the street with their lawn (without asking for their money) or painting their house for them. There are lots of things to do even at home. Kids when was the last time you helped vaccum or wash windows or mow WITHOUT griping?? Yes I know kids over the age of 16 work? "

But But Yeah But... wrote on May 12, 2008 12:58 PM:

" It's funny how people want to make some case for the rec center... now. The thing is dead. There is no debate going on. The vote is over. Time to go back to work. Talking about how good the rec center would be is like presenting a case for how Noah could have really benefitted from having two arks. Didn't work out that way. There's no going back. Ancient history. Time to move on. "

ENOUGH wrote on May 12, 2008 11:49 AM:

" ALL READY, it didnt pass so stop your whining and move on! "

RT wrote on May 12, 2008 11:34 AM:

" ChangeCan Happen wrote on May 12, 2008 10:43 AM:
"....is an explanation of how The City of Cheyenne was going to guarantee every child in Laramie County free use of the facility...."

That was NEVER part of the plan. "

Runner Chick wrote on May 12, 2008 11:17 AM:

" As I know from running you have to pace yourself. Give Broyles and the Council a chance to get Cheyenne back on track. It's not an easy job to deal with baubble heads like COST and other NAYSAYERS to growth. Ignornace is hard to overcome, but work is easy and I will work for a change in the mentality that thinks that they run Cheyenne. Many good things occur in Cheyenne, thanks to the hard work of Broyles and the rest of the council. Broyles has put Cheyenne and her District first. I applaud her and know that the council will find a way to fund the Recreation Center that Cheyenne NEEDS & WANTS.
"

ChangeCan Happen wrote on May 12, 2008 10:43 AM:

" It's hard to wrap your arms around Change, but that is exactly what Cheyenne needs is Change. The Recreatoin Center is a perfect example of how Cheyennne was geared up to accomplish change. It's too bad that people didn't understand that they the electorate would be a part and have a place in the new Recreation Center. The committee for the Rec Center did a great job in explaining the facility and how it would appeal to all sections of the community. What was lacking in my opinion and I voted YES, is an explanation of how The City of Cheyenne was going to guarantee every child in Laramie County free use of the facility. This commitement to recreation and use of the facility needs to be made clear and have a place at the top of the list. Maybe it will be from sponsor businesses, The Boys and Gilrs Club of Cheyenne, the School District, the voters, but top of the list is free use of the facility by every child in Laramie county. Make that committement and we can build the Recreation Center. Set up transportation from outside towns to the Rec. "

Confused wrote on May 12, 2008 9:26 AM:

" At least the Mayor did write a decent letter to the editor the other day and the Editor held his tongue. But you know the wheels are turning at City Hall to try to figure out how to push the Wreck Center through. I hope the Mayor and the Editor pay attention to this blog and ALL of the comments and the other "unpublished" letters to the editor and really sit down to figure out why it did not pass. Don't do your own polls, don't have townhall meetings cause only those for it show up, don't blame it on the county residents, don't blame it on "naysayers". TOO MUCH AT THE WRONG TIME and get some other things finished. Period. "

TS wrote on May 12, 2008 7:48 AM:

" It is past time to get rid of the silly 6-penny tax. This tax is not for need anymore; it is for want. Why should the people living outside of town have to pay for all of the things people living in every city, or little town, in Laramie County want or need? If you live in the country and your well goes bad: does the city come out and fix it? Will we ever use a Day-Care Center in Burns? It is time to start paying your own way. If Cheyenne really wants a Rec Center they should have one, but the people living in Cheyenne should pay for it. This silly 6-penny tax started out to take care of roads and look where it is now. The way to pay for things in town is a city property tax. When people have to pony up their own money they might find there are a lot of things they don’t need. "

CFNCG wrote on May 12, 2008 7:24 AM:

" We here everyone tell us what a sweet deal the City of Cheyenne got on the Taco Johns Event Center. However, we do not here the anything about the sweeter deal that the Taco Johns Event Center pact got on the prime land deal. There are always two sides to the issues and the Cheyenne government is telling us only their side of the deal. "

to A State Split wrote on May 12, 2008 7:07 AM:

" 45% of YOU voted for it? You don't do math well do you? Only 68% of voters showed up for the election which means far less than 45% "of us" actually voted for it. Get another 6% of the population to vote for it and it will still fail because there is another 12% that will still vote against it. It was voted down, now get over it already. "

BIG YAWN wrote on May 12, 2008 1:37 AM:

" Would someone please rid us of this rediculously worn out blog party so that all of these strung out morons will take a break and do something MORE PRODUCTIVE with their lives? Thanks. "

Ralphinphnx wrote on May 12, 2008 12:10 AM:

" So,now that all of you
poor little old local
drugstore cowboys,and
hicks from the sticks
found enough courage to vote NO to Mayor
Skywalkers Costly and
Un-needed Recreation
Center,do you need a
vote first to run both
Skywalker and the City
Council out of town on
a rail or what since
your too lazy to recall Spiker and all
of them,my friends?
Or do ya'll have to go
clear it with your new
Messiah Barack Hussein
Obama first now then? "

mij wrote on May 11, 2008 5:55 PM:

" The vote on the rec center was a referendum on the Mayor and his policies. Don't the let the door hit you on your backside on your way out Jack. "

To SS Lives wrote on May 11, 2008 2:19 PM:

" I was with the City at the time the Bud Plant was looking for a home. Fomer Mayor Gary Schaffer knew and told the city department heads we had NO chance in landing the plant. You are spreading misinformation. It's poor choice's like this, which make people be suspect of even the truth. "

PK wrote on May 11, 2008 11:50 AM:

" To C.Springs Resident. I lived in the Springs for three long years. You're a bit warped if you think a couple of murders a week is low crime. Traffic is horrible. All that building of riki tiki subdivisions to the east is ugly and insane. The smallest lots for homes of anywhere in the west.

You need to get out of your little upscale barricaded neighborhood and look around you. Most days you can't even see the mountains. Yuck. "

Not wrote on May 11, 2008 9:35 AM:

" It is not stupid and selfish to use common sense. This rec center was too much money, in the wrong location, and too big. Plus it was an "in your face" issue and overkill telling everyone to vote yes and having all the various media forcing it on us. Sometimes less is more. "

Patience wrote on May 11, 2008 7:42 AM:

" CFNCG - The year end timeline for the TJEC was the owners timeline for a deal, not the City's. This is fact. The city could act on a good deal or see it shut down permanently. I will never use it, it is still a smart decision for the city. Property taxes? Go and dispute your taxes if you believe your property value has fallen. I am guessing the timing of our tax assesments lags the market value by a little. Everyone stop with all of the conspiracy theories. Decisions are much more pragmatic than most of you realize. I guess facts take the fun out of wild speculation which is most of the fun right? "

Cheyenne Resident wrote on May 11, 2008 6:58 AM:

" Words of Wisdom and Words of Caustion ... Wisdom: I am pleased the rec center was deafeated -and- that our smaller communities received some needed financial assistance. However, before you bash the Burns Mayor, you need to realize that the WTE took one statement out of context. You do not know what the Burns Mayor said before or after that statement. Hearing that it may lend itself to an entirely different meaning. So, take your shots at the messenger, not the Mayor.

Caution: Although a menu style ballot has its appeal, imagine what the smaller communities will face when they need something and the Cheyenne voters are greedy and only vote for Cheyenne projects and against the smaller community projects. You want to see bias, that is what will happen. Cheyenne in its arrogance will control the smaller communities in their everyday life and pocketbook. So think before you leap. "

CFNCG wrote on May 10, 2008 11:05 PM:

" Just a few questions regarding the issues. Why did the Mayor & Council push a quick vote on the Taco John Event Center Land Swap deal? Why was this quick vote accomplished a month before a new 2008 tax year? Coincidence? Why was the issue not placed on the Special Election Ballot like all of the rest of the special proposals? Are the taxpayers now in the business of bailing out failed "Special Interest Pacts" from foreclosure? Why are property taxes going up when property values have dropped, foreclosures are up, and property values are being inflated? We feed the pig so they can spend our money like fools. I challenge the citizens of Cheyenne to Vote all of theses clowns out of office next election. "

losers wrote on May 10, 2008 10:33 PM:

" Cheyenne, you have run this blog into the ground. Get a freakin life......like those of us who say no to the rec center. You are a bunch of losers. "

Art wrote on May 10, 2008 10:31 PM:

" I, personaly cannot believe any of the props passed .I voted no on every one of them for the simple fact that the menu style ballot was a joke . Where are we Washington D.C.? Such lumping of items under one proposition is underhanded and from the very start crooked. Cheyenne does need a place for people to shoot weapons if they choose. Why some rich Clifornian hasn't figured that one out and opened a large facility is beyond me. "

Starving wrote on May 10, 2008 9:45 PM:

" I think it is just wonderful that the rec center didn't pass, I can now afford the can of beans and a can of dog food for diner. "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 10, 2008 9:15 PM:

" REALLY
I do not know how the calming islands were built, possibly ward contingency funds. As for TJEC, I can not predict forever, but as for right now YES, it is paying for itself. "

SS Lives wrote on May 10, 2008 7:36 PM:

" The 6th penny election proves one thing: the S.S. still lives right here in Laramie Co. Stupid and Selfish that is.
Like drug dealers on the corner, the SSers preyed on the fears and weakness of others to influence the vote against the Rec center. Are these the same folks who famously led the rejection of that beautiful Budweiser plant at Ft Collins, which ultimately led to a beautiful events center there.
Every argument they put forth against the rec center was stupid and based on selfishness. Democracy and free speech are great, but not when the SS is allowed to influence the votes of so many. Thanks for nothing SSers. Sieg Heil. "

For the Governing body.. wrote on May 10, 2008 4:51 PM:

" Message for the City Council and Mayor. Don't back door this Rec Center. We voted NO. We do understand that all money from where ever, did come from us the Taxpayers. Also any land you think of selling etc was purchased with Taxpayer money. Should you go against the wishes of the Majority we will not be forgiving. "

Patience wrote on May 10, 2008 4:36 PM:

" The rec center is a project that represent both economic development and also makes our town a better place to live. Go back to progress and prosperity I and II for proof. Private money (about 6 million) that had a vision that we could better our future economy and community. These efforts have brought 2 business parks, thousands of jobs and funds directly for quality of life. This has kept our economy strong while the much of the rest of the nation suffers. This rec center is one of the next pieces in the puzzle that keeps making us a community of choice for better and better jobs. Believe it or not, this would have been a destination quality center that would promote shopping and commerce therefore helping to pay for the project itself. This is how "investment" works. Any other of these worthwhile initiatives do anything but increase the future overhead expenses of our county? Is everyone ok with county vehicles driving back and forther from Archer at $4+ a gallon? Do we need a new city east of Cheyenne? "

RalphinPhnx wrote on May 10, 2008 3:55 PM:

" Its sad that no rec center is going to be built. If it had, it would have given you backward yokels some tangible evidence to back up your propaganda that Cheyenne is a good place to raise kids. Now you have nothing but your boring, flat, arid, featureless, godforsaken, hole on the prairie to show to anyone. "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 10, 2008 1:02 PM:

" CFNCG
Adding onto the TJEC was looked at before the rec center was proposed, it was not and is not feasible. There is not enough land there in order to add on and still have a place to park. Yes I agree that government can feed you a line of bull in order to make you feel better, but that is not the case with every situation. You must trust them at times. It was not just the Mayor and council that looked into TJEC, they got other city departments involed and gather lots of input and feedback. Beside the fact that the rec center and TJEC were completely differnt in there offerings. "

Patience wrote on May 10, 2008 11:17 AM:

" The rec center not passing was very disappointing. It is interesting reading all of the comments. As far as the size, it was to be a complete center that met the needs of all age groups. Maybe it was a mistake not to start on a smaller scale and expand. If you have been in these centers in other communities they are incredible gathering places. Go check out Laramie, Gillette, Casper, Windsor. To big though? Campbell County just passed a 55 million dollar rec center for 1/2 the popoulation (bonded not paid for by cash as most people believe happens in Gillette). I spoke to one of their town leades and they recognize the need to contiually make Gillette a better place to live and their community agrees. It is very unfortunate that Archer passed at that level. I am sure some new facilities were needed but $30mil? So here we are paying the 6th penny for 5 more years and Cheyenne gets minimal benefit. Thanks to all of you in Eastern Laramie County, we have always supported your needs. I wonder if that will continue? "

Dum Dums wrote on May 10, 2008 10:41 AM:

" There are more registered voters in the city limits than outside the city limits in the county so quit blaming laramie county residents living outside of Ceyenne. Check the precint vote City residents voted aginst the rec center more than county residents so it just goes to prof there are more smart people in the city limit than FOOLS! "

Michael Milliron wrote on May 10, 2008 10:10 AM:

" To Melanie Landsford, I may never meet you but I do respect you. It is not my intentions now or ever to be a fat cat as you assume. Nor do I actually blame the entire system , only those that are running it. Both my wife and I along with my older son do work for a living while I still have two other children that are still attending school and one in Central who is in ROTC and the youngest to achieve his position as a Cadet Captain at Central which he will enter into the Marine Corps after graduation. If you were to ever meet me or I you then you would have known someone that that you could count on to defend your Constitutional Rights as a True American. But that is another story. This project for what it's worth however may have been good intentions but it was actually a waste and not cost effective. It produced hardly any jobs which are needed and future generations would have been footing the bill's that would have lead to it's closing. Thank You for your disclosure and honesty. "

Ralphinphnx wrote on May 10, 2008 10:02 AM:

" Bravo! Bravo! Good Show Cheyenne Tax
Payers and my fullest
congratulations to all
of you,that voted NO
to Mayor Skywalker
Spiker idiotic costly
personal legacy loser
recreation center
nonsense.So go fix up
Storey Gym folks! "

My two cents... wrote on May 10, 2008 8:50 AM:

" However, why the growth is occurring you have to maintain some level of financial/fiscal responsibility which also means that the tax payers
have an obligation to pay attention to their elected officials. Tax payers need to be concerned about the spending this city undertakes. Lets fix the small problems before we take on the bigger ones. Yes the event center was a good idea but was it a financially good idea?
Also, nobody cares about children more than you do. Again my two cents.
"

agree with Terry wrote on May 10, 2008 8:38 AM:

" Terry I totally agree with you. I think that the people of the cheyenne area and I put area in there because I happen to live one or two blocks out side of Cheyenne. Should vote against the 6 penny county tax and vote on a 2 or 3 cent city sales tax and use that for projects only in Cheyenne and get rid of the 6 penny county sales tax and allow the Burn, Albin and Pine Bluff to pay for all of there own things. Good thinking Terry lets see how that works for the small towns.
"

REALLY wrote on May 10, 2008 7:16 AM:

" Keeping the Faith
" REALLY
If figures lie and liars figure, then how can I win. You want to see the money, what exactly does that mean? How are you supposed to see the money. General funds from the City will not cover expenses at Taco Johns Events Center, therefore it is not costing the citizens money.

SO! General funds from the City will not cover expenses.
Your implying the skating rink will pay its own way forever.

If the general fund doesn't, the City has a fund that will. Do you know what fund covered the wonderful calming Islands on Vandahei. A 250K Slush fund.. "

Willie B Hurd wrote on May 10, 2008 6:22 AM:

" The opinion piece in this mornings paper, written by the WTE edtior, shows how out of touch Mr Eckhardt and the City admininstration is with it's citizens. Reed is now declaring victory in this weeks 6th penny election because the voters passed nearly $5 million in city projects. Come on Reed, those 3 city projects (which totaled less than 10% of the $50 million that did pass ) were all piggy backed on county projects. Had those items stood alone on a menu type ballot at least two of them, if not all three, would have been soundly defeated. If you would pay a little more attention to what your readers are trying to convey to you, rather than forming your opinions from out-of-state Investment Banker surveys, you and the Mayor might actually have a better feel for the needs and wants of our community. Yes Reed, that flushing sound you heard is indeed the the political future of the Spiker Adminstration being flushed down the toilet! "

One more time wrote on May 10, 2008 5:55 AM:

" People keep saying this rec center was for the children, families, and seniors. Once most kids become teenagers, they don't want to do anything with their parents! And if they are in one part of the center and their parents are in another, how is that "family" time?Plus, seniors are on a fixed income. And let's say it again: kids without direction will continue to vandalize and get into trouble no matter what we build!! And let's monitor the growth. Dell Range is showing what happens when it isn't controlled. "

CFNCG wrote on May 10, 2008 12:58 AM:

" Dear "Keeping the Faith" and "Really"

Fact: Several investors lost money in The Taco Johns Events Center.
Fact: Government uses "Dis-Information" all the time to make a person believe they are looking out for the interest of individuals and the community. You are eating what they are feeding you.
The Mayor and City Council does not get something for nothing. The investors who they bailed out will give each member a campaign donation and endorsement for the next election. The Ice Rink should have been voted on by the taxpayers. Let us decide what our tax money should be going towards. Now that we have it lets make the best of it. Lets add-on at a fraction of the cost to make a rec center. "

Just my two cents... wrote on May 9, 2008 10:46 PM:

" Folks...You people are just making me laugh. You
obviously have not experienced growth before.
The problem is the city is growing very rapidly, old money is finding it's way into the city as you can see for yourselves. How terrible is it that we as a city try and prevent local townships from growing.
It is in the interest of everyone to support this growth. You people are silly to think that the great city of Cheyenne can only stay small. I have news for you...The growth explosion has already happened. Put your seatbelt on because this town is taking off. My two cents "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 9, 2008 10:21 PM:

" I agree with many of these postings that the rec center would not have fixed the teenage problems right now. But what it would have HELPED with, not solved, is giving families a place to go as a family and spend quality time together. This builds stronger families and helps the younger kids and families from getting into trouble. Start with a strong base and let them grow into adults. "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 9, 2008 10:18 PM:

" REALLY
If figures lie and liars figure, then how can I win. You want to see the money, what exactly does that mean? How are you supposed to see the money. General funds from the City will not cover expenses at Taco Johns Events Center, therefore it is not costing the citizens money.

Terry
You are sorely mistaken if you think that the small communities would be able to keep up with there infrastructure and needs if it were not for Cheyenne. Pine Bluffs and Burns made out the best from the 6th penny. That means that the people of Cheyenne are really paying for those improvements. And I too live in the county. "

Art wrote on May 9, 2008 10:09 PM:

" To Keeping the Faith: take em ice fishin' "

Art wrote on May 9, 2008 10:05 PM:

" Believe it Mayor "Sporky" doesn't need push-ups he needs push-backs ..and I mean from the table I wonder if the people of Cheyenne foot his bill at the local Perkins were you can find him just about every day. I also like the Idea of calling the Belvoir Ranch, The Spiker Legacy, so all can remember what we voted in, and what it has cost us all. "

Melanie Landsford.... wrote on May 9, 2008 8:50 PM:

" Most of you don't seem to get the fact that the rec center was intended to serve the needs of all generations in Cheyenne!!
Michael Milliron, I gave you my name so I hope that makes me less of a coward to you!! You say you work but you also complain that there isn't enough money in your household to support your adult children. Put them to work!! Please stop blaming the system. Your problems are stemming from your own household and the choices that you have made!! If you want to be a fat cat put your own family to work and stop blaming everyone around you that learned that lesson years ago! Your enemies in Cheyenne are all those folks with wives and children that work hard and have reasonable minds!! "

Architects of Stool wrote on May 9, 2008 5:58 PM:

" I have to agree with commoner. The idea that kids want to hang out at an excercies faciity is an adult idea. I was a kid and I know better. This thing was just another feather for some yuppie's hat so they could show their sister from Denver that we too are modern and civilised. Well we're not modern. And we are not civilised. We have horse turds in our streets. And plastic boots and bronze elk for art. Get real. Rec center can't fix poor taste. "

Mark wrote on May 9, 2008 5:48 PM:

" Would someone please post an intelligent defense of Archer? I have not seen any reason why it deserved to pass. Prop 3 seemed to benefit from a lack of specificity. It flew under the radar as prop 4 absorbed all of the controversy. How is Archer a real need, especially given its $30 million price tag and far-flung location? If people don't want to pay the 6th penny, why did they decide to vote for paying it to underwrite Archer? No wonder Ketchum is tickled. He threw a turd in the punch bowl and we the people of Laramie County let it fall in our drinks and then accidently swallowed it. "

For Keeping the Faith wrote on May 9, 2008 1:43 PM:

" That post was for Helping the Faith not CFNCG. Sorry "

Randall wrote on May 9, 2008 1:42 PM:

" WY attorney is right. The mayor should have held a public vote for a referendum on the purchase of the Belvoir Ranch. It was millions of taxpayer dollars and he shoved it through without a public vote. He did not do a thorough review, and he ended up with a massive site that is contaminated from TCE flowing off the base. Now he can't sell it. The state will not allow a landfill there because opening up the ground enhances leaching and moves the plume even further out. Three engineering firms have confirmed that, since the purchase was made. That is why a city politician should never take it upon himself to buy huge tracts of land for city use, without having a public vote. Incidentally, Spiker, Collins and Seagrave do own adjoining lands out there that they are looking to develop. So it's no secret why they would want city infrastructure run 20 miles out of town at taxpayer expense. I personally think all three should be indicted for misappropriation of public funds. "

RT wrote on May 9, 2008 1:40 PM:

" Youth Person wrote on May 9, 2008 10:22 AM:
" RT, no I don't think that it will stop all youth crimes but it will give those that want to do something a chance"

Go back and read my whole response. I said I thought that the rec center would be an asset. I voted "YES" BTW. "

REALLY wrote on May 9, 2008 1:39 PM:

" CFNCG---Show us the Money! Figures lie and Liars figure. To repeat, show us the money. "

parent and coach wrote on May 9, 2008 12:09 PM:

" I am sorry that our town has voted down the rec. center. I am a parent of a very active honor roll student who currently attends 7th grade. My child has no problem finding wholesome activities, however, many of these sports have to compete with the adult sports for access to school gyms after school hours. One of the critics of the rec. center said we should open up the puplic schools after hours rather than them sitting unused. I can say that this reflects a lack of knowlege of the current situation. The public schools are already open and there is heavy competition for the pools as well as the gyms. The schools also use these facilities after hours, as school sports rarely occur during school hours. These school facilities are also horribly under-funded. Many of the proposed new schools and school improvements have been set back for years. I believe we as a county and as a state need to realize that these "good" students are our greatest asset as a community. We need to improve either the funding and facilities at our schools or provide additional facilities as a community. "

Terry wrote on May 9, 2008 11:57 AM:

" Why should those of us that live outside of town have to pay for what the city people want? And it is not just one town it is all of them. It is time to get rid of this silly 6 penny tax and start letting people that live in these towns pay for the things they want. If you live in the city your house or business should be taxed for the things that you vote for. Stop making people that never get any good out of the things that the city people want pay the bill. We don't ask the city to pay our bills why should we pay there's? "

Commoner wrote on May 9, 2008 11:54 AM:

" Okay. It's Friday at 1030 pm. You are a teenager. The rec center is of course closed. What to do, what to do?

The rec center wouldn't have changed a darn thing with how teens have nothing to do here. Why not have a privately owned entertainment complex that's open until 2 am? Think outside of the box. Kids don't want to exercise on Friday night. Are you daft?! "

Youth Person wrote on May 9, 2008 10:22 AM:

" RT, no I don't think that it will stop all youth crimes but it will give those that want to do something a chance. The Rec center also would have given family someplace to go. Right now there is no place the Y is to packed already and the pool is crowded everytime I go. I was in high school 10 ten years ago and because I didn't have things to do and the gyms were expensive I got high and drunk with friends. When my family and I did things in the summer I was good and I also had a job. During the winter thou there was nothing to do for teens and families. My friend tells me how many kids are in the Boy's school and other places that the state pays for and it's a lot so that money could be spent on something else but people like you don't want to try and help keep kids in the city with positive things to do you would rather dish out the 5 to 6 figures to pay for kids to be sent away. Good idea "

Michael Milliron wrote on May 9, 2008 9:49 AM:

" It's about time everyone of you realize that you were all manipulated and used and you all will continue to be done so by a dictating council and commission. Just like how they manipulated the ballots. You couldn't vote no on one and yes on another. There really should be a Board of Ethics in Wyoming to stop this type of voting manipulation and malfeasance. It should also show the entire community how far these Council Members and Commissioners will go to keep their position and continue to make you the residents look like fools with their sneaky little ways.

And runner chick, there is a difference between a Lady an a Woman. Wyoming Native , you could possibly be right. Cheyenne will continue to grow, but at what cost. Will the Council and Commission continue to sell out all of it's land to out-siders for pennies on the dollars and at dirt cheap taxes. They have already employed out of state workers at places such as Wal-Mart DC and other places. Most of the employees are not locals or didn't you know this? "

Confused wrote on May 9, 2008 9:46 AM:

" Why do people keep complaining that there is nothing for kids to do. Do you live in the same town I do. I barely have time to eat after work. We have an INDOOR and outdoor pool, there is soccer, baseball, LaCrosse, Parks & Rec already has tons of activities, winter sports include basketball, gymnastics, sign them up for one of the Martial Arts studios in town, make them get a JOB or volunteer. The argument that there is NOTHING to do is NOT valid. "

Colo Spgs Resident wrote on May 9, 2008 8:37 AM:

" PK, you should do your homework before you accuse Colorado Springs of "gridlock and crime". I live in the Springs area and the quality of life is absolutely wonderful.

I was born and raised in Cheyenne and moving to C. Springs. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. There is little traffic problems. You want traffic problems and crime? Move to Denver. Money magazine recently voted the springs as the best rated large city to live in. Garden of the Gods, the Broadmoor, Black Forest, Air Force Academy, Pikes Peak.. shall I go on? Cheyenne - All I can think of is Frontier Days. "

WY Atterney wrote on May 9, 2008 8:15 AM:

" I think I need to make public a huge error on Mayor Spiker's part as it relates to Pork Barrel spending. The Mayor was adamint about buying the Belvoir Ranch and the got it. The problem is and will be in the future is water rights on the land. The city owns all that land but has no water rights. The mayor forgot about this one huge detail. Even the water below the surface dosen't belong to them because that's used to irrigate the old Warren Live Stock Ranch which was grandfathered in over a century ago. We wasted huge amounts of money on land that was promised first as a landfill and then as a "recreation" area. You put a land fill in and you run the risk of contamination someone eles water. No wells can be drilled because the city dosen't own that water. Spiker has been scrambling behind the scenes to figure out a solution. Problem is he is stuck.

And this is the guy who wants to build a huge rec center? Mayor get one problem resolved before you embark on another "

David wrote on May 9, 2008 8:11 AM:

" To Have Faith:

I agree with you.
Drive on!

The youths that would be involved in these problems would be so regardless of a rec center.

The parents and supporters are ridiculous.

"GIVE ME A REC CENTER OR MY KID IS GONNA SMOKE METH!"

This seems to be their argument.

In other words threaten us because you didn't get your way.

If that statement is true what it proves is that you are raising uncontrollable children and are the biggest part of the problem. "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 9, 2008 7:34 AM:

" CFNCG,
The Taco Johns Events Center may have been a bail out, or maybe it was a great opportunity for the City to pick up a facility at a great low price. Yes that facility had lost money in previous years, but the current administration ran some numbers and thought it could make some money, and guess what, it is currently operating in the black. Spiker and the city council saw an opportunity for the citizens of Cheyenne, to be able to offer a service to them and improve services to them and it was at a fraction of the price for what something of that nature would normally cost. Get your facts straight. "

Patriot Eagle wrote on May 9, 2008 7:27 AM:

" What's wrong Bruiser, did you just discover that Whites are being "out-bred"? You better learn to love spanish because the days of hisanic culture being fully embraced in the USA are coming fast. "

Monster wrote on May 9, 2008 6:47 AM:

" Some parents have created their own monster - expecting everyone else to entertain their kids. And then their kids expect everyone else to entertain them. There are so many things to do, let me list a few: Volunteer, read a book, ride a bike, play softball, golf, hockey, fly a kite, go on a picnic, visit a senior citizen and offer to help them, mow a lawn, go on a picnic, go fishing, get a job - OMG did I say get a job???? Some of these don't cost a dime!!!

And yes there are terrific teens out there and kudos to their parents!!! "

CFNCG wrote on May 8, 2008 11:50 PM:

" Let's list some of the wonderful things Mayor Spiker and the City Council has purchased for the Citizens of Cheyenne out of our wallets. The Bailout of the Failed Multi-Million dollar Taco John's Event Center. Cha-Ching $$$$. Failed Multi-Million dollar Parking Garage. Cha-Ching$$$$ Power's Field Multi-Million dollar Blue Ribbon Ball Park "It is used by one select private youth group the American Legion for only 3 months out of the year. Cha-Ching $$$$.
Lets stop feeding the pig and vote these clowns out of office. The Citizens of Cheyenne deserve the most for there money. "

Have Faith wrote on May 8, 2008 11:46 PM:

" It is very sad to me that the focus of this issue is how terrible the city's youth are. The majority of us are good kids, do you not trust us to make the right decisions without a rec center? There is a small number of us spray painting the town and doing meth. It is unfortunate that they represent us all. Have a little faith in us. "

new ranch name wrote on May 8, 2008 11:16 PM:

" If the Mayor wants his name on something, why not call the ranch, Spiker Ranch. Now that is a way bigger hole than Pando Park.
One thing I notice is that Pando Park is jamb packed with Sledders after every snow storm. I bet it it the most used park around. "

Michael wrote on May 8, 2008 11:11 PM:

" No wonder such a large percentage of our Wyoming youth move out of state to persue careers and start families. Why would they choose to live here in such an anti-family city. Also, I don't think most people were just going to drop off their kids at the Rec center for "babysitting." The majority of people supporting the Rec center that I spoke with stated that it would have been a great place to take the whole family. Oh well, I guess we will just have to start paying the 6th penny tax soon without any real benefits to the residents of Cheyenne. "

GRLGOD wrote on May 8, 2008 10:57 PM:

" And everyone wonders why all the kids in Cheyenne are always getting into trouble. What do they have to do but run the streets with gangs and deal drugs? What else is there for them to do here to keep them from getting into trouble and running with the wrong crews. If the leaders of Cheyenne are ever going to see a change it is by starting with the kids there tomorrows leaders. Look who will be leading tomorrow. It's not those who think they already have there heads on straight. Its those with a troubled home, running in gangs, selling drugs. And again I will ask why are our kids involved in the things they are? Answer. Nothing for them in Cheyenne to keep them out of trouble.You think about that the next time a kid ends up in prison for murder, drugs, assult, rape or any type of violence. You don't see it big with the adults. It's starting big with the kids. "

Art wrote on May 8, 2008 9:46 PM:

" I too invite Georgia Broyles and the other council members of the "sporker" regime to discuss and explain themselves here...ahhh but good luck getting that. Cheyenne citizens need to take a good look at this city council and consider impeachment of them all. Let's get some honest ,trustworthy folks in there working for the benefit of their constituants. Instead of jumping on every spending spree that comes along. Mrs. Broyles you said you would continue to fight for the rec center. What would you say to all the fitness facilities trying to recruit clients and make a living in todays economy? Shall we all become Wal-Mart and to hell with the individual who wants to try to make a good business in this town? "

My Tax Dollars hard at work wrote on May 8, 2008 8:47 PM:

" Well there you go. The vote just proves that first and foremost, voting does count. For all those people who say my vote does not count, you have again been proven wrong. Like I have said before, wasteful spending and liberal use of our tax dollars is each of ours responsibility as voters we showed the local government who has the actual say.
Congrats to the local communities outside of Cheyenne as you too deserve some of the revenue. Twenty years from now when people profit from these upgrades they will be glad these spending allowances were made for both Cheyenne and our sister communities. "

No Hate wrote on May 8, 2008 8:41 PM:

" There is so much hate and venom involved in the political process in Cheyenne its a bit alarming. Its impossible for those with that much hate to be happy. Impossible. There is a way to caring on a civil debate with the injection of hate. But that involves wisdom which can only come from self reflection. Thinking your view is right and all others is wrong only leads to narrow-mindedness and in the long run personal unhappiness.

"

Airport Design wrote on May 8, 2008 8:15 PM:

" For--Mr. David Haring, This design item piggy backed on the needed items. If it gets a yes vote standing on its own only then you can get excited. For me it was a real waste of taxpayer money.

Design to your hearts content its probably the last money you will get for sometime. "

Now lets see.. wrote on May 8, 2008 7:59 PM:

" Parents who say there is nothing to do will have children who say there is nothing to do. It reminds me of a Denver TV station who interviewed teens cruising Colfax. Asked why they were cruising and they said "because there was nothing to do"!!!! In Denver!!How about a job??? Even if they aren't 16, they could mow lawns, get a paper route, babysit, etc. It's not that tough to figure out!! "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 8, 2008 7:11 PM:

" DP
You are apparently one of the many misinformed or one of the people that did not do your homework before you start spouting off. If the rec center had passed, it would have been front loaded with bonds so that it could start construction this summer and have a planned opening in April 2010. Thats only 2 years away, so it would have been beneficial to those who have kids age 15 or younger. "

Keeping the Faith wrote on May 8, 2008 7:05 PM:

" Eric W
The recreation center was not proposed to be a babysitter for parents to dump their kids off. It was proposed to be a place for families to go to be able to spend time together and do activities as a family as well. And as for all the comments about having all these amenities that the rec center offered in the private sector, someone please tell me where I can take my kid in January when the temperature is 20 degrees with a wind chill below zero. Should I take him out into the park? The Y is the only thing close, and it has no indoor play structure, no leisure pool, and the gym is usually programmed, so where next? "

Samsonite wrote on May 8, 2008 5:24 PM:

" Greeley has a rec center, and therefore the teens in Greeley are behaving like little angels. Yeah, right. Between the cow turds and the gang grafitti, I don't think the rec center has done much to clean up that hell hole of a town. Rec centers do not fix social ills. "

To for RT wrote on May 8, 2008 3:59 PM:

" Your words not mine."You old smartie you, you did understand what I met. Sense you did I feel that all other folks did to". I am assuming that "met" was suppose to be "meant" and "sense" was suppose to be "since". I find it hard to believe with all of your gramatical errors that more people do not listen to your opinion. I think maybe the new library would be more help to you than the "wreck" center. "

PK wrote on May 8, 2008 3:48 PM:

" My goodness, what did parents do for generations without Recreation Centers for their children?

So what if Cheyenne is anti-growth. Ever hear of majority rule? You want growth? Move to C.Springs and enjoy the gridlock and crime.

The Rec Center may be a good idea, somewhere down the line when location and cost are more thoroughly considered.
"

RT wrote on May 8, 2008 3:39 PM:

" eric w wrote on May 8, 2008 11:44 AM:
" Do the people of Cheyenne actually believe a rec center would stop the youth crime here?"

While I still think the rec center would be an asset to the community, I am not crazy enough to believe that it would stop or even reduce youth crime. The youths who are committing crimes will continue to do so regardless of the amenities that the rest of us law abiding citizens would benefit from having. The only thing to do about youth crime is to harshly punish the offenders. Let them serve as an example to other young people who may be on the fence to becoming offenders themselves. "

Also a Youngster wrote on May 8, 2008 3:24 PM:

" "AMEN." You call your selves adults, how about you act like it." "

Young Person wrote on May 8, 2008 3:19 PM:

" "I was reading the news, I know suprising because I am supposed to be a meth addict, right." If I could vote I would probably vote no on the rec. center, and not because I dont think it would be good for the community but simply because there are so many other things that I can benefit from. So rather than wasting all our money on this over the top rec center, I feel we should focus on more little projects. I am really proud of where I live but today when I look at this blog and see how the adults of my county are acting towards each other I am embarrassed. I am a proud Cheyenne citizen but I fully support the small towns in our county, they deserve money from this tax so stop being so self absorbed and think about what you are saying. Oh yeah and I appreciate it if I wasn't classified as a meth addict." "

Benji wrote on May 8, 2008 2:38 PM:

" To: "RT"

Calm down, my friend. How can you label "Take a Set" as illiterate? You have no proof. Perhaps his typing skills are on par with mine. It is normally the sign of a shallow mind to attack the messanger in order to avoid analyzing the message. Shall I say that you have a shallow mind? No, I have no proof. "

WOW wrote on May 8, 2008 2:34 PM:

" Did anybody else read this article? $250,000 for Pine Bluffs to fund a four year supply of crack!!! Isn't that illegal? "

Mark wrote on May 8, 2008 1:54 PM:

" Okay, DP, then don't expect the government to pay for a shooting range. I would have greater peace about this outcome if the Archer project, a gov't boondoggle if I ever saw one, had been defeated. Those who voted no on 4 and yes on 3 are being selective in their opposition to government expenditures. "

Porky Jack wrote on May 8, 2008 1:47 PM:

" Maybe Mayor Spiker could just do his morning push-ups at the Belvoir Ranch. That was another 10 million dollar public expenditure that the public is no allowed on to (turns out it is contaminated.... should have read the small print). Happy sweating, Jack. "

For RT wrote on May 8, 2008 1:41 PM:

" Oh thank you so much for catching my error of leaving the A out of seat. You old smartie you, you did understand what I met. Sense you did I feel that all other folks did to. Thank you so much..
Love and Kisses, MOM
XXXXOOOO "

To jim t wrote on May 8, 2008 1:22 PM:

" Not everyone who lives north of Del Range is rich. I voted no on the rec center because there are other items I feel are important. I am not looking for some to dump my kids, I love spending time with them.
I did not want the shooting range, but the smaller communities out east deserve to have improvements and repairs. Also, would the shooting range have passed if it were on a separate proposition? Would the airport terminal? We will never know because per usual necessary items were lumped with unnecessary items.
"

Gen wrote on May 8, 2008 12:50 PM:

" Guess some voters rememebered what the 6th penny tax was originally for,street,roadway improvements and upkeep,with sewer and water expansion in mind. This was also meant to be a temp. tax to be voted on regulary, whether or not to even have it.Not where to use the money everytime.With that being said we all agree that Cheyenne needs to grow,but it can't. Why? Because its land-locked.Our leaders both city and county need to work together on this, not fight each other as they have in the past.I'm glad the county got the money for its Archer complex. Now how are they going to get water there and what happens to the sewer?Cheyenne needs to expand and this is a step in the right direction.Annexation is a bad word,but it should to be done.Clean up the county pockets inside of city limits first,without charging enormous fees to do so. Could some of the 6th penny go for that? One months income of that tax(between 800,000-900,000 dollars)would put in about 8-10 blocks of water and sewer main with curb gutter and steet,which the city requires inside their limits.(Eccept for Mustang Ridge but we won't go there)Plan for growth now.City and County "

Young Professional wrote on May 8, 2008 11:53 AM:

" Does anyone actually care what the Mayor of Burns has to say? I mean, besides the people that actually voted him into office? NO? Okay then, why is he even an issue today? There are way more residents of Cheyenne that voted for the various propositions, so please do not put this on the residents that live in small towns in Laramie County. I voted YES on every proposition but 4. Why? because the majority of items, excluding the stupid shooting range & greenway (which I use), are NEEDS, not WANTS. Big difference people. "

eric w wrote on May 8, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Do the people of Cheyenne actually believe a rec center would stop the youth crime here?It would be another free babysitter like the mall and library.Hey Cheyenne what about spending some quality time with your kids,listening to them,setting a proper example for them and teaching them something of value. "

DP wrote on May 8, 2008 11:42 AM:

" One more thing. Why be so ignorant as to blame the small amount of population in burns and all other surrounding areas as to why the proposition got turned down? Even if all those people voted YES it still wouldn't have happened. Just get over yourselves your vote wasn't the only one that mattered everyone's mattered and the majority of the people voted NO. It's not hard to grasp. If you are that hard into having a rec center then instead of slamming the people who said NO think of reasons why you can explain why you said YES besides using what you heard from the government on reasons. They tell you what you want to hear. Now tell everyone who said NO why they are wrong to say NO. They have good reasons, but everyone bashing the people agents it have no good reason, just some fantasy reason why we should have it. Tell me now WHY do we need it. For those of you that say it's for your children, even if it got okayed it still wouldn't be built before you children grow up... "

DP wrote on May 8, 2008 11:32 AM:

" It's funny peoeple ask for growth. Where is all the crime (big citys) Where are our children here in small towns getting meth? Big citys. But yet that's what everyone is calling for. We need a rec center to get kids off drugs and to help Cheyenne grow?? When Cheynne grows and the gangs come into town and brainwash our childrens minds and feed them poison through drugs, then I will find each and every one of you "parents" that want growth for the good of the comunity and slap you. Look at the small towns most kids there don't even know about all the diffrent drugs, they do their chores do their home work and are good kids who listen to their parents. It is growth that is messing up everything good in America. Maybe we all need to just calm down slow our lives down a little and figure out what is really wrong with our youth these days. Everyone thinks there is easy fixes for everything, but the easy fix is never letting it get out of had to begin with. Look at yourselfs befor juding others. "

March of the Pigs wrote on May 8, 2008 11:14 AM:

" Marilyn Manson surely must have wrote the song "The Beautiful People" about the people who supported this Rec Center. They live in a fantasy-land that doesn't have our failing economy. "

Wyo Native wrote on May 8, 2008 11:14 AM:

" I read through some of these comments and have to chuckle. I can't believe that people actually think that a rec center would reduce vandalism and teenage drug rates. The rec center would have done NOTHING to influence those rates. The kids who do those types of things would not have been the kids who would have used the rec center. I seriously doubt that childhood obesity rates would have been decreased either. These kids aren't doing any athletic activities right now; why would they do more with the addition of a rec center?!? Remember that the rec center did not offer anything new to Cheyenne that Cheyenne doesn't already have. Kids get involved in drugs and vandalism because of bad parenting, not because we don't have a rec center. Kids are fat because they eat too many cheetos and play too many video games (a result of bad parenting), not because we don't have a rec center. There are plenty of things for youth in this town to do; they're just too lazy to find it. "

RT wrote on May 8, 2008 11:01 AM:

" "
Take a Set wrote on May 8, 2008 9:32 AM:
" Burns Mayor, Please take a set. You won. ""

Do you mean "Take a SEAT"? The illiteracy displayed here is staggering! "

Bruiser wrote on May 8, 2008 10:50 AM:

" The only reason Mayor Spiker wanted the rec center was so he could have a building to put his name on. "

youth support wrote on May 8, 2008 10:25 AM:

" great job Laramie County. Now the youth still won't have a place to go so more kids will get into trouble and end up in court. The funny thing is that everyone I talk to in cities with a rec center love and use it alot. Have you been to the Laramie one it is awesome and has things for the youth to do there. I guess I should have vote against all the projects for Burns, Albin and Pine Bluffs lesson learn they don't support Cheyenne why should we support them. All I can say to the little town you need to watch out the next time you need something Cheyenne is probably not going to help. I hope that Mayor Spiker has something up his sleeve to get it. "

lefty wrote on May 8, 2008 10:06 AM:

" Why doesn't the city have an oil company fincance the Rec Center? Lord knows they have more than enough money to foot the bill "

Just a thought wrote on May 8, 2008 9:53 AM:

" So I was sitting here reading some of the comments and chuckled at a few, and thought about the comments of how intelligent and how wonderful a rec center would be. Why, doesn't anyone ever suggest alternative fuel or power sources. Why don't we invest in solar panel farms or wind farms to that would make money and help the residents of Cheyenne out so that way ideas of rec centers or what have you can be funded through the profits earned. "

Take a Set wrote on May 8, 2008 9:32 AM:

" Burns Mayor, Please take a set. You won. "

DP wrote on May 8, 2008 9:29 AM:

" You people say, good job now you have a shooting range instead of something that could help your health. There is how many places around town that can help you get healthy countless??? Now there are how many places in town that you can practice your shooting and have a safe place to go practice...none, not unless you are in a club which most people can't even coming close to affording unless your middle or upper class?? There is places in big areas that have rec centers that have shooting ranges also. Oh but to all of you you have to be a redneck to practice shooting? You people that wrote that seem like the uneducated rednecks, just writing ideas down without thinking or using good judgment, just because you are upset is crazy. Why don't you people go back to your run down homes with your meth addict children who have no discipline which the rec center would have never helped your kids. Maybe on magic land but not in the real world! Do more with your children, don't expect the government to keep your kids busy. It's your responsibility! "

Confused wrote on May 8, 2008 9:12 AM:

" First, as has been mentioned before. Certain kids aren't sitting around saying "Should we go paint up some buildings, vandalize something OR go to the Rec center and go swimming. Let's go swimming" They have no parental supervision. That is the problem. Secondly, there is plenty to do already: YMCA, fitness clubs, indoor and outdoor sports, school sports, parks, VOLUNTEER, WORK. YOU, children, choose to be bored, irresponsible, and destructive. YOU have more options than I did in a much smaller town. You can't expect adults to provide for your childrens entertainment 24/7. That is your job parents. "

Dont Blame wrote on May 8, 2008 9:11 AM:

" I do not understand all of you that keep blaming the small towns for the rec center failing. It is a Laramie County Tax not a Cheyenne Tax. Where do you think the people of those small towns spend their money? Admit that the city messed up they started with a project of $25 million and then they got greedy and almost tripled that. Most town's rec centers are not paid for with tax dollars. "

stop crying wrote on May 8, 2008 8:56 AM:

" for the kids who have nothing to do: omg! use your imaginations. read a book, educate yourselves. join the stupid weight classes at school and lift weights FOR FREE there. go to the FREE park and play basketball or tennis. crying cause that is outdoors? pay 1.50 to see a movie at the lincoln. or, OMG! maybe get a job? there is stuff to do. you're just making excuses not to do it and act like hooligans. stop crying. "

Why wrote on May 8, 2008 8:23 AM:

" Why do the small towns in Eastern Laramie County come running to Cheyenne residents for simple things that should be budgeted to run a town, such as sewer repairs, sanitation trucks, roof reparis, sprinkler systems, etc. Cheyenne doesn't run to a county tax for things like that. If it weren't for Cheyenne, those small towns would have blown away years ago...thanks for the support on the Rec. Center, I'll remember that in the next election. "

DJ McMenus wrote on May 8, 2008 8:22 AM:

" What's the fuss about? The city likely planned to use bonds to build the rec center, which is obvious if you consider the supposed time of completion (by 2009 or 2010). With that being said, I'm sure the city will proceed anyway. The point that many of you are missing is this: The citizens are fed up with the old "bait and switch" methods used by the city. Another thing that was severely detrimental to the cause of those for the rec center is the perceived lack of progress on past 6% sales tax projects (can you say Norris Viaduct, or how about Romero Park, or better yet, Pershing Blvd?). The editor of the WTE certainly did NOT help by trying to force his agenda on the citizens. So to all of you that are crying over spilled milk -- get over it, your precious rec center will likely be built anyway. To those that say they will move: GOOD, don't let the door hit you on the way out, perhaps you will be replaced with people that have some common sense. "

PB Person wrote on May 8, 2008 8:20 AM:

" I agree with JAFOA. I voted no for the rec. center not because I felt it wasn't needed I do beleive something is needed. But it was too much of a building and too much money. If you look 3 propositions were appoximately 50 million. The rec center propostion was 55 million! How many projects are the first 3 taking care of and then WHAM! 1 propostion is more then all of them combined. It just looked really bad on paper. If the city of Cheyenne scales it back a bit and takes some steps instead of leaping in head first maybe things will be different. "

SS wrote on May 8, 2008 8:13 AM:

" To all the old folks who voted no on this because they'll never use it, that makes about as much sense as me refusing to pay Social Security because I'll never use it. It benefits other people. Selfish people need to realize that our taxes don't always have an immediate benefit to us, but they benefit the community and society as a whole. "

To those of you blaming small towns... wrote on May 8, 2008 8:05 AM:

" I'll start by apologizing for Mr. Testermann's comments. He is definately not the voice of most sane voters who live in eastern Laramie County. I would like to point out however that blaming Pine Bluffs and Burns for Prop 4 is just as ignorant as the comments Mr. Testermann made. Take those town's votes out of the equation and it still would have failed. I'd also like to point out that I drive to Cheyenne every day from Pine to work. I put $80 a week in fuel in my vehicle while in in Cheyenne as well as over $150 per week on food & household items totaling about half of my income. My children have attended our Town Daycare Center which has a fabulous staff with a lower turnover rate than any center in Laramie County and great curriculum but it's overcrowded and terribly run down. I couldn't afford to live in Cheyenne because of the cost of housing and child care. Even if I did, I still would have voted no on a project with such a terribly inflated pricetag when there are many businesses that would be damaged by it's existence. "

To Comon wrote on May 8, 2008 8:00 AM:

" To Comon: You are not a teenager or you wouldn't have written that. Stop acting like you know what the teenagers here in cheytown want to do. If they want to do drugs that is what they will do, it is the parents all the way, you loose communication with your children at an early age and they turn out troublemakers simple as that it's not a magic center, and stop you adults trying to act like teenagers, believe me it's over and so is the rec center thank God! "

Retro Bunny wrote on May 8, 2008 7:52 AM:

" I still don't understand why the County and the City don't vote completely seperate of each other, and have seperate Sales Tax. If the County on say...the South Side would allot a retail park for something like a new mall, it would create enough tax monies for the County to build 100 County Fairgrounds. It'd be nice to drive along I-80 and actually see something to do in Cheyenne. Face it, this city looks like a dump from I-25 and I-80. People don't want to drive all the way to Dell Range, they just keep going and don't stop. "

rbd wrote on May 8, 2008 7:27 AM:

" "But I'm sure in Wyoming there's more gun people than Greenway people."

While the county may need a shooting range, I hope somebody monitors how Mr. Smith is spending this money. His group's original proposal to the County was based on "private" funds being raised to pay for the $3.7 million facility. Then it shows up on the ballot at $6.8 million, before bein scaled back to $2.9 million. Now it appears that the tax payers are footing the bill for the entire facility. What happened to all the private donations???? Maybe the WTE needs to get off their "tax, tax, tax" butts and actually do some reporting about what is really going on. At least the Greenway proposal has been has some integrity versus the the fantasies and misinformation put forth by the so called shooting park. Ask the County for a copy of their original proposal........and lease agreement "

sporker wrote on May 8, 2008 7:17 AM:

" A 55% rec center no vote with an apathetic 55% Laramie County voter turnout was slim. Mayor Jack Spiker and the rec center supporters will use these figures to justify other taxpayer supported schemes at funding another rec center. Do not forget past projects such as the parking garage and the depot that had been turned down by popular vote and built anyway.

Congratulations on the grassroots citizen effort to derail the rec center. Now pay attention to what Mayor Spiker and the Citizens for the Rec Center will do to impose their agenda on the Cheyenne taxpayers. They will attempt to subvert the will of the Laramie and Cheyenne rec center vote results.


"

Thank God Almighty wrote on May 8, 2008 7:08 AM:

" Free at last. Free at last. The Rec Center Boondoggle has fallen flat on its..... past. "

Sun Valley Resident wrote on May 8, 2008 7:00 AM:

" To Councilman Georgia Broyles: Rather than calling you and having a private conversation (that you can later deny ever took place) I would much rather you address the following question publicly on this forum. That way everyone has you on record and can hold you accountable for what you say. Here is the question. What are YOU going to do for the residents of Sun Valley that drive on 12th street every day and have to stop at that ridiculous stop sign at 12th street and Sun Valley Dr? That's the question, it's pure and simple. We anxiously await your public response. "

ha wrote on May 8, 2008 6:57 AM:

" JAFOA hit the nail right on the head! Thank you, if these are such wonderful ideas why doesn't private enterprise jump all over it. Because private enterprise is by far the most effeicient. IF you wanna see how private enterprise feels about good ol Cheyenne WY drive downtown and what you will see is a burned building, about five tattoo shops, several boarded up gas stations, a couple bars, and really not much else. The arguement that kids in this town will now "vandalize" stuff is laughable, get a clue guys or at least a valid point. Do I even need to go into detail to explain why that is completely asinine? There are already plenty of places for kids to go! I listed them in my last comment but I'm afraid it didn't sink in. About 5 parks, a YMCA, Two Fitness One's, UMC Health and Fitness, Smart Sports. Kids vandalize stuff all over the country guys it doesn't matter where you are or where you go!! It's a poor unfounded arguement to suggest that a rec center would have solved our city's problems with vandalism. "

kc wrote on May 8, 2008 6:42 AM:

" Hate and disdain. Until the current mayor and city council this community wasn't so full of hate and disdain. It's a shame.

"

Willie B Hurd wrote on May 8, 2008 6:40 AM:

" This was much more than just a no vote on the rec center. It was a referendum on the Mayor and the City Council. With the exception of a couple of city projects that were piggy backed to props 1 and 2, all the propostions approved by the voters were County projects. The rec center was a City project. The voters have spoken loud and clear that they repudiate the city's bailout of the Taco Johns Event Center, the Skywalk and many other wasteful projects. It's time for new faces at City Hall. "

JAFOA wrote on May 8, 2008 6:15 AM:

" If the Rec Center is such a great idea, and would be so well supported, why are not more PRIVATE businesses clamoring to open them up here in Cheyenne? The real fact is that a city the size of ours cannot support a facility the size of what was offered by this proposition at this time. Had it been set up to do in phases, and to grow as the need is there. It is NOT that the idea of a rec center is bad...just this proposal was not appropriate for this time. "

Ralphinphnx wrote on May 8, 2008 12:36 AM:

" So at last some sanity
has returned to the big little City of
Cheyenne,Wyoming with
the defeat of Mayor
Skywalker Spiker's
Costly Legacy To Himself Recreation Center! On behalf of
Nancy Ray Gun we thank
all of you,voters who
said "NO!" So go recall Spiker and the
Rubber Stamp City Council Next Folks! "

Another PB Resident wrote on May 8, 2008 12:35 AM:

" I would also like to say that I voted "NO" on #3. That $30.6 million could sure build a nice new fair grounds and make some nice improvements throughout the county. County Commissioners, where was the money for the fair grounds in your greedy little bid? Or have you forgotten about the promises you made about building new facilities for the "COUNTY" fair? Just curious! "

Mitchell wrote on May 7, 2008 11:49 PM:

" A lot of cheapskates, misers, yahoos, stick-in-the-muds, scrooges, hayseeds, and individuals mired in the past with a mindset of yesteryear got their way on Tuesday Look for much greater difficulty in bringing in new and further business development and investment to Laramie County, with Casper, Fort Collins, and Loveland to benefit seriously to Cheyenne's detriment. I hope the locals enjoy see a lot more graffiti around the city as well as noticeable increases in property and nuisance crimes from directionless youths and young adults who have few places to go and little constructive to do with their time. It appears that many in Cheyenne want to make the city the Sun City of Wyoming with wind the one and only feature -- change Cheyenne's name to Wind City -- and all you kids get out so we don't have to spend any of our money on you all ! "

Old Pilot wrote on May 7, 2008 11:32 PM:

" I support the idea of a rec center but had to give this misguided concept a thumbs down because 1)It was an unattractive (almost ugly)building 2)It appeared to be an energy hog 3)Most importantly, it was in a hazardous location, being so near to the flight path to / from the main runway at the airport. "

Sad Youth wrote on May 7, 2008 10:58 PM:

" Shame on Cheyenne!!! You will never grow.. As a young person that would like to have more to do in Cheyenne. It's sad!
I guess I will like many other youth in Wyoming. Get out of dodge!! "

PB RES wrote on May 7, 2008 10:56 PM:

" To all of you who are blaming the small towns in eastern laramie county for the defeat of the rec. center... give me a break between the 3 communites there might have been a total of 500 to maybe 600 votes cast. If all of them had been for the rec. center it still would not have passed so take a step back and look at who the real reason is for the rec. center not passing.. the people in and around cheyenne. I for one did vote against it not because it was in cheyenne but because I felt kind of played by cheyenne. You want the county to help fund a rec. center and then you go and spend how many million on a Taco Johns event center?? That tells me you already had funds or means of getting funding for projects on your own. I think chey needs a rec. center I would use it since I work in cheyenne but I think the city council killed this one on their own. Next time they want this don't buy a multi-million $ event facility at the same time asking for 55 million for something else. "

Mr Truth wrote on May 7, 2008 10:42 PM:

" You think Spiker cares about the voter's mandates? Think again. Look at what he did with the RxR terminal vote, Parking garage, etc. He is smarter than the rest of us voters...He will get his way with the rec center too. "

Laramie Guy wrote on May 7, 2008 10:13 PM:

" You all need to quit thinking that a recreation facility is related to youth development and crime. You see, the kids that you worry about . . . you know, the ones hanging out at the mall, spraying graffiti on your businesses, drug users, cruisers, etc are not one bit interested in going to a rec center. 1) They can't afford it, and 2) they think it is full of a bunch of smelly old people working out, and 3) they know they'll get labled and frowned upon by the adults there...probably just for the way they dress. The only kids that hang out in Laramie's rec center are the children of wealthy families or those whose parents force them to go along while they work out. The "street" kids won't set foot in the place. "

Not happy wrote on May 7, 2008 9:41 PM:

" I voted for all of the proposions to help the small towns around Cheyenne grow but those idiots can't look outside the box to help us they say that they will not come to Cheyenne and use the Rec Center but how many times do you come here and shop or play sports? For those of you that live here the only time you got off your butt was to save yourselves a penney, Oh hold on you voted yes for all the small ones guess what we still got the TAX. But you could not help the ones that do good things for our commnity like the Parks and Recreation Deptment so many people would have used it and come from out of town and helped with the tax. You can spend up to $500.00 for Cheyenne Frontier Days and that is just one week but can't spend $50.00 at the most a month for Cheyenne. "

NRC wrote on May 7, 2008 9:37 PM:

" I use to live in Calif. 18 miles from the beach, 5 miles from Disneyland and so on. And you know what??????????? The kids still stole, did/do drugs. The kids their had allot to do but............
Reading these comments I sure can tell who never went out of Cheyenne or even Wyoming. Small town thinking. Parents need to spend time with there kids with out dropping them off at a rec center. Or is this to hard for the parents here. Give up your cell phones. Go to the park or even Wal-Mart and see how many "adults" are on the phone and the child is walking behind them. And the child is 3 years old. No, we don't need any thing else that will take the family time away. The rec center would not build better families. Mom and dad would do this and the kids would do that. Cheyenne is a medium city with big city problems and it shouldn't be. Parents wake up and quit trying to give your kids to someone else to raise. "

Confused wrote on May 7, 2008 9:20 PM:

" Why did the Library pass and the Wreck Center did not? Perhaps Mr. Mayer, Mr. Reed it's because the library had COUNTY in front of it and not CITY. hmmmm interesting. You cannot say that the people of Laramie County are not progressive. Perhaps, the folks of Laramie County are conservatively progressive. This vote does not mean Mr. Mayor and Council that you were give the green light to seek other funding. "

PB resident wrote on May 7, 2008 9:17 PM:

" I cannot blame Cheyenne residents for being resentful of the money spent in the small towns. Please understand that the idiot mayor of Burns does not speak for the majority of us. "

City Councilwoman Georgia Broyles wrote on May 7, 2008 8:53 PM:

" Thank you all for your comments.
To Sun Valley Resident: You made me laugh. Thank you for that. I am not famous, so I can't be made into a "Bobble Head." Hillarious thought though. My head doesn't bob. It moves in a purposeful, decisive manner once I complete my own research. Call me anytime with specific concerns and we'll talk, 630-9032.
To Runner Chick: Thank you for your faith in me and know I will never stop fighting for our children and future. "

Tech Head wrote on May 7, 2008 8:36 PM:

" I have learned my lesson NEVER to vote for the small town items again. I was trying to support their needs by voting yes for them and forgot to realize they are too selfish to see that we have needs in Cheyenne. I think the mayor of Burns spoke for his people by slamming our Rec Center. Why am I funding their multipurpose "REC CENTER" when they can't support our multipurpose center "REC CENTER"? Maybe next time the city should call it a multipurpose center rather than a Rec Center and we can fake them out the same way they lied to us. I am sick and tired of living in a county that doesn't value their health. The only decent months here are August, September, and October and it's a shame I won't have a walking track for the other 9 months when all we have is nasty, miserable weather! The loss of this Rec Center will hurt Cheyenne’s development for years to come! "

Comon wrote on May 7, 2008 8:34 PM:

" Take this from a teenager -


There is NOTHING to do here! We get so bored, especially over weekends and you people don't expect us to drink or do drugs in this downtime?

Well, congratulations jackasses, you screwwed us out of something to keep occupied. "

sfg wrote on May 7, 2008 8:27 PM:

" to those that said since they didn't get their rec. center, they should have voted down the small town's request. Are you serious? Most of the small town's requests are needs- water, sewage, safety whereas the rec center would have been nice but not a need. It would not have stopped youth crimes and violence or drug / alcohol use it may have actually have been be more like a hangout where drug dealers can meet their young buyers because I'm sure most parents would be just dropping of kids and not sticking around supervising what their kids are up to. "

I am so disappointed..... wrote on May 7, 2008 8:13 PM:

" that the majority of voters didn't understand what they were saying NO to. This center would of served the recreational, social, and physical fitness needs of all generations in Cheyenne. I hope Cheyenne leaders will look for other options as many simply do not understand what this center would mean to the community. "

Art wrote on May 7, 2008 7:52 PM:

" Runner Chick, build your own rec. center and operate it for the benefit of Cheyenne "

Jim Feather-lie wrote on May 7, 2008 7:45 PM:

" Vernon Testerman Jr., the mayor of Burns is pathetic. I'm a Cheyenne resident and voted for his projects, never again. My first clue should have been when he and his council voted against their own projects. "

Art wrote on May 7, 2008 7:41 PM:

" Not Surprised, You should join one of the many fine centers we have already in Cheyenne. Why put all of these fine people out of business so Spiker can have his hole in the ground likle Pando does. "

Buddy wrote on May 7, 2008 7:30 PM:

" Don't you just love those who obviously have no children. They are so quick to point out parenting, not spending time with the children, etc. Where's those perfect little angels that are not born with absolutely no problems? In today's society fill with so much corruption, violent, self-centered egotisical vain people, etc - all they care about is self. The bottom line is that we all need each other. It truly takes a village to raise a child. That child will grow up, and then what? Don't be so quick to throw stones or judge. Since you are so quick and know so much about parenting -then teach and take time with the juvenille court system, Family Services and other social programs. With your know how -- America should be whipped into shape within the year. Oops - that would mean you will have to get involve and possibly be responsible for the social ills of America. Didn't mean to put you on the spot like that - Buddy. "

dave mathew-sin wrote on May 7, 2008 6:29 PM:

" Thank you for not interviewing that LO$ER, jack quirk. KGWN TV 5 was not as smart and had to cut the live interview off because quirk was so bad. The young reporter didn't know what to say except we have go, and cut quirk off. "

WHINERS wrote on May 7, 2008 6:13 PM:

" Sure are alot of WHINERS out there if they do not get they'er way to bad to sad could not have your wreck center what a big Crash. Wa Wa Wa "

Citizen for Change of City Officials wrote on May 7, 2008 6:00 PM:

" Mark my words. Mayor Spiker and the City Council will still push to make the $55 Million Dollar Recreation Center. They have already told the Cheyenne Citizens they have other options. The option they plan to invoke, will be to lay-off several City employee's in order to save on incomes and redirect that money saved by cutting jobs in order to build their sacred Recreation Center. This way it avoids the vote altogether. It wont happen right away. It will draw out over a period of time. "

April wrote on May 7, 2008 5:59 PM:

" Someone needs to explain to Mr Haring that people did not vote FOR the airport terminal. Its passage was an unfortunate side effect of voting for the towns of Burns, Albin, and Pine Bluffs. If it had been a stand-alone issue like the rec center, instead of being attached to necessary infrastructure upgrades, the new air-PORK terminal would have sunk faster than the DOW the day after 9/11. "

Relieved wrote on May 7, 2008 5:51 PM:

" It's nice to know that the City of Cheyenne is still owned by it's VOTERS and not the City Council and the other powers that be with money. A big hoorah to COST for giving us the straight facts. "

Jim wrote on May 7, 2008 5:47 PM:

" To L Climb, who said that people don't want government to interfere with the private sector -- why doesn't the private sector fund a shooting range? I don't want to pay for one. New businesses would be drawn by a rec center, not a midway for toothless knuckle-draggers. "

To Broncochick wrote on May 7, 2008 5:42 PM:

" "How sad that the voters of Cheyenne would rather see the other gymnastics facility on Carlson be the only big place in town."

The lady that owns the gymnastics facility on Carlson used HER DOLLARS and NOT TAX DOLLARS to support her program. It is not a non profit..it actually has to make money that is her business. She runs a good program and that is why it is big. First class operation!!!! My daughter has gone there for 6 years. Why don't you try it there. "

Mark wrote on May 7, 2008 5:39 PM:

" Why is spending $30 million on a half-baked proposal to build a fiefdom in Archer for Jeff Ketchum a worthwhile proposal, while building a rec center for our kids and grandkids is deemed financially reckless? How are "the poor people" going to commute to their jobs in Archer? Opponents convinced themselves that rich people wanted this, but the rec center would have been great for us middle and lower income folks. I used to live in Laramie. We missed the boat on having a rec center. Evanston, Green River, Rawlins, right down the line -- other towns in Wyoming have rec centers and their parking lots are full. I could puke. I would leave this town, but I'm going to stay out of spite just so I can vote no on every project to keep the towns of Burns, PB and Albin paddling along on my dime. "

to Lisa Kindal wrote on May 7, 2008 5:34 PM:

" That's what Parks and Rec is for in Cheyenne, to develop programs and ways to let your children have access to activities and facilities that are built. Oh, but guess what you voted against your children.I bet you don't know what you missed out on for your kids. FUN and Fitness, and events and maybe a job at the center with benefits. But instead you wanted to pay a 6 cent tax for nothing, because you thought the location was wrong. "

Confused Seriously wrote on May 7, 2008 5:29 PM:

" I am really confused as to why the rec center was turned down. I talk to other community members and I hear the same thing over and over again. "There is nothig for the kids to do but get into trouble." This was our chance to help change that. Something that will give kids a good positive way to spend their time you parents say no. I am a mother of two, a 5 year old and a 7 year old. I voted for the rec center for them and a good way to spend time with them. Think about the seniors who want to get out do something that fits their budget. No they don't have that opportunity. I am sorry a silly sideway took over a golden opportunity for so many. Maybe we can figure out a way to change your minds. "

Melinda Cummings wrote on May 7, 2008 5:05 PM:

" I am already involved with the City of Cheyenne Parks and Recreation Gymnastics program. I have also had my children in swimming and other programs Parks and Rec have to offer. I think it is great to have the YMCA, churches, clubs, and private owned gyms in town. I also believe in what the Cheyenne Parks and Rec has to offer our community. Next time we have a meet in our gym, you, as well as the rest of the no voters are invited to our already jam packed gym full of parents and parks and rec supporters. Trust me, this town is more than capable in supporting all of them. And for the people who believe it would not be affordable to them, that is why there is talks about a scholarship program. And it would be on the bus route. Parks and Rec put on SuperDay, the Goblin Walk, the Easter Egg hunt, take care of our parks, soccer parks, pools, and a hundred + other things. I appreciate all the hard work they have put into our city already. "

Nuts wrote on May 7, 2008 5:02 PM:

" With so many squirrels voting No to the Recreation Center, its going to be tough to find the nuts and bolts needed to fix the holes in their heads. I guess if my family needs something I should buy them a gun, move them to the county and send them to the rodeo the last weekend of July. OMG homage to visitors to our city but nuthing for yokels who live here. I hope that the one doctor that could save your life won't move to this town because it doesn't have a recreation center. Let the members of the city council post their vote. I bet Judeye and Pete are two of the squirrels voting no. Vote them off in retribution. No loss to people who have no ideas anyway.The 6cent tax was to share the costs porportionally. Didn't someone explain that to you. What is the legacy that people in Cheyenne want to leave. A downtown that doesn't work, a labor force that is too poor. I am disgusted. I will never vote for a single county proposal or a single county road, street, water, safety again "

TheSwex wrote on May 7, 2008 4:57 PM:

" Please, let's keep the Taco John's Events Center out of this arguement. That place is an ICE RINK. If you people wanna see a real events center, go to Casper and look at their arena. Ours isn't worthy of being called an events center. "

CheyWyo wrote on May 7, 2008 4:42 PM:

" I am so very sad for all of the citizens of Cheyenne. The center would have been about community and health for all. And what a great place to spend those cold, windy days, having some fun with friends.
The shooting range is good for this community, but someplace to get a workout, would have been great. I am sorry it was defeated. "

Cameron wrote on May 7, 2008 4:14 PM:

" The only way Spiker did not see this coming is because he did not look. He's so used to hearing himself talk, he can't hear anyone else. Spiker, hear this: You're a loser. You're time is through. "

Not surprised wrote on May 7, 2008 4:11 PM:

" I'm not surprised that we didn't get the rec center. I guess the beautiful library was our miracle for this century. Like the man said - Cheyenne doesn't need young people - we can be like Shoshoni, lose all our population and dry up. I'm 54 lived here all my life - this mentality doesn't surprise me at all. So, for those will suggestions of how to fund the center - lets hear all your ideas! "

Wyo Native wrote on May 7, 2008 3:34 PM:

" The Rec Center being voted down is a sign to the Mayor and city counsel, that the public is sick of thier pork barrel spending. We now need to vote in a new mayor and city counsel. They have not managed our money. A few city counselman should not be on the counsel since they have a strong conflict. THEIR BUSINESS OWNERS that can use the system for their own gain. "

D.R. wrote on May 7, 2008 2:56 PM:

" LET'S JUST GIVE MORE REASON TO HAVE OUR CHILDREN SPRAY PAINT AND VANDALIZE OUR CITY. SO WE CAN FUND MORE INTO OUR CORRECTION FACILITIES. YOU PEOPLE SEEM TO LIKE TO FOCUS ON YOURSELVES AND MONEY AND YOU DON'T WANT TO SHARE FOR THE GOOD THINGS IN LIFE! EVERYTHINGS ABOUT MONEY!!! "

Truth be told wrote on May 7, 2008 2:46 PM:

" To "Jimbo"... you say "we don't need families, we don't need young people"! Are you kidding me? Without families or young people towns die. People get old and die, every town needs young people and families.
Lastly, we do have a lot of gyms and such in this town but only the YMCA has things for children to do. However, the YMCA is dirty and does not offer enough to children of all ages. Maybe one day we can pass the idea of a rec center or any other type of center that will accomidate and encoureage our kids to get out and be active. "

rut wrote on May 7, 2008 2:26 PM:

" Now I wish I could change my vote!! I voted no on the rec center and yes for the things that Burns needed-what a mistake! The Burns mayor sure knows how to talk out both sides of his mouth! I am all for the rec center just as soon as the city completes some of the other more "needful" items. Am I the only person who can't figure out why the road that runs in front of Lowes doesn't go all the way to the street that the post office is on? Sure would help traffic on Dell Range and the road is already half done!! "

jim t wrote on May 7, 2008 2:21 PM:

" I'm glad the rich folks north of dell range didn't get their country club I mean rec center.The rec center had a senior wing planned for seniors on a fixed income that couldn't afford the entrance fee.Single moms with kids asking their moms to take them to a rec center they couldn't afford to enter.All the bored kids in cheyenne pull your flippin pants up and ask your ignorant parents to spend time with you instead of trying to keep up with the joneses that are broke already. "

get real wrote on May 7, 2008 2:10 PM:

" I voted yes, the sixth penny is already approved might as well get something worth while than a greenway and such. To all of you who voted NO, you are not intelligent people, do not care what you say....go live somewhere else. "

Lisa Kindel wrote on May 7, 2008 2:02 PM:

" A rec center? I was against this from the beginning. The people who need it ... mostly folks on the South Side ... would never be able to use it because it would have been off the beaten track, nowhere near a bus route or nowhere close that you could ride a bike or walk. So, the people who really need it because they can't afford joining a gym or the Y or getting their kids involved in expensive leagues, they would have been kept away from it. Who cares how Cheyenne looks, how about the leaders of Cheyenne looks around and starts serving ALL the people of the city and give people more opportunities to improve their lives instead of doling out taxes for the "haves" to have a little more. "

To Thank-You wrote on May 7, 2008 1:50 PM:

" Quote: "It is time to have a city tax not make everyone in the county pay for something they never use."

Are you serious??? As a Cheyenne voter, I voted Yes for all the small projects in Burns, Pine Bluffs, and Albin... would you rather all the Cheyenne voters push our weight around and vote no on things that don't affect our community?

We could have voted no on Prop 2 for the small towns, but we chose not to be egocentric. "

p-rivers wrote on May 7, 2008 1:46 PM:

" You know, somebody has to say NO to government walking on the turf of the private sector. Thank goodness WE said NO!!! "

George A. Boils wrote on May 7, 2008 1:45 PM:

" I would have voted yes on 4 IF...there were something good on the ticket like say...allowing smoking in bars again, or gentlemen's clubs. We need some sin in this holier than thou city. "

Shame on Chelsea wrote on May 7, 2008 1:45 PM:

" You need to engage your brain before you write things. I can almost garantee you that there were more youth hoping the shooting park passed rather than the rec center. Shooting sports is the largest project in 4-H right now. And there are hundreds of other youth that are hunters. Hmm! I guess the rednecks do get off their butts. "

Laramie County Kid NOT addicted to meth wrote on May 7, 2008 1:45 PM:

" Weather you are for or aginst the rec. center you should be professional about voiceing your opinion or else you make yourself look "stupid" Your steryotypical remarks do not improve the image of your intellegence. Not all Laramie County voters are rednecks, and not all Laramie County Youth are addicted to meth or drunks. Maybe if you got off your butt you could see the good things Cheyenne kids are doing. "

Jack Handy wrote on May 7, 2008 1:44 PM:

" That Rec Center should be privately funded and owned period. If the Vandehei Folks want a Rec Center have them get the business license and land, and build it themselves.

Elitch Gardens could be considered a Rec Center, but the city of Denver certainly didn't build it. "

taxed for ever wrote on May 7, 2008 1:29 PM:

" This may not be about do we or don't we need a Rec Center. It could be just as simple as "read my lips, no new taxes!".

May be the next vote should just be to keep the 6-penny going forever as it seems it will never go away. There will always be projects to fund. Just collect the money and then spend it. The Republicans and Democrates are both good at it. "

Spikers Big Plans wrote on May 7, 2008 1:22 PM:

" Last week I was in Greeley and it stunk really bad.... and I think Cheyenne should have a slaughterhouse too. And more strip malls. I have seen the future, and it is Greeley. I want to be more like Greeley. You know what place is really cool? Greeley. "

Rosemary wrote on May 7, 2008 1:20 PM:

" Our kids need something to do? The parks and school play grounds should do.There are tennis courts, pools,the greenway,parks and playgrounds. Get your bike out. Maybe the older couple down the block needs their yard mowed.When did parents become the entertainment commitee?the difference between wants,needs and essentials will become
bigger issues as the price of things goes up.thanks to all for the failure of the wreck.Cheyenne does not need another project build that can't afford the operating expenses. "

Our Children wrote on May 7, 2008 1:16 PM:

" As a teacher and mother in Cheyenne, I am disappointed that the people of our community could not see the value in supporting their young people. Cheyenne does need to grow! We need opportunities for all the citizens of Cheyenne to participate in their community. We cannot afford to continue to expect our economy to flourish, our schools to prepare children and our community to meet the changing needs of society if we continue to be so backwards in our approach to progress. I am sad to be a citizen of this community on this day. "

get real wrote on May 7, 2008 1:13 PM:

" The city and county residance can no longer complain about crime or youth getting into mischief anymore. This would have given kids an outlet to go during winter months. I know the money was extreme but people need to realize the possible problems it could create. So THANK YOU for not passing this. "

A State Split wrote on May 7, 2008 1:09 PM:

" Let me remind you all that 45% of us recognize the need for a recreational center - this was not a landslide victory. I hope that we can find a way to convince 6% more of the population that the recreation center is a needed facility for our children and senior citizens so that next time it will pass. For now, when my child says there is nothing for him to do because the one public pool and skating ring are full and the bowling ally has leagues, I can tell him to go play with guns at the shooting range. "

Grizzeled Old Man wrote on May 7, 2008 1:08 PM:

" Cheyenne doesn't need a rec center! Back in my day, for recreation my pal Lomez and I would hide in trees and throw bricks at unsuspecting passers-by. We didn't need barbells and triangular weights and medicine balls. I don't pay taxes because I keep my money in a Folger's Coffee can under my bed, but I'm going to complain anyway because I'm a grizzled old man! "

to Chelsea wrote on May 7, 2008 1:05 PM:

" If your children are fat, lazy, meth-heads then that is your fault. No rec center will ever fix social ills. Spend more time with your children and take personal responsibility for their character developement rather than expect it to be someone else's responsibility. By the way, that's called parenting, if you have not been spening time with your children to keep them off drugs then you are a horrible parent. "

James Hart wrote on May 7, 2008 12:59 PM:

" I'm glad the Rec Center was voted down, as has been pointed out by others. Cheyenne has lots of other projects that need to be completed first. As for those of you who "supported" the Rec Center. There are many other facillities that can be used. Bother public and private. And as for Jimbo, who thinks Lions Park is a big waste, have you hauled your butt to the park recently? "

Taxation and The Death of Exploration wrote on May 7, 2008 12:55 PM:

" Anyone who thinks going to a government rec center is a fun family activity needs to get out of the house more often. There's these things nearby called the Rocky Mountains. Go to them. Bring a sandwich and a newspaper. Get some sun. Enjoy life more. See the world. "

That is great wrote on May 7, 2008 12:49 PM:

" Let's not vote in a Recreation Center that would be good for everyone in Cheyenne and vote in a Indoor/Outdoor shooting range. Freaking town, it's a bunch of back woods/out of shape people! "

Im glad wrote on May 7, 2008 12:49 PM:

" I am glad the rec. ceneter didn't pass. Why not fix your roads in Cheyenne. If that would have passed it would be another 8 years before we could have another tax. Cheyenne there is more you can spend your tax dollars on instead of a rec. center like fixing things. Spiker likes to spend the money. "

ha wrote on May 7, 2008 12:47 PM:

" Growth that is not sustainable will not be sustained. Look at the economy folks, the last ten years or so have been unsustainable growth, and look at the mess we are in. There are already places in Cheyenne to work out and exercise. Two Fitness Ones, YMCA, Smart Sports, UMC Health and Fitness, the Greenway, Municipal Pool. Need I continue, growth at any cost will bankrupt the city. When the oil and gas boom is over in Wyoming (which it will be someday) you will be thankful that the citizens of this county had the forseight to vote down this wasteful unnecessary project. Growth will happen folks, it's simple mathematics but managed growth is the only kind that will sustain itself. Now to everybody that is mad about this not passing I have an idea. blow off steam by riding your bike on the greenway, lift weights at Fitness One, swim alap at the Y, or go to a park for a walk. Thank you Laramie County! "

MA wrote on May 7, 2008 12:36 PM:

" There are more important item than an overpriced rec center. Streets needing plowed so our older population are safe, road repair and improvement. The streets in this town are horrible.
Also, what makes people think we voted for the airport and shooting range. Maybe we voted for our neighbors and had no choice on the other items. "

Dave Sanborn wrote on May 7, 2008 12:32 PM:

" Spiker has some nerve if he thinks the voters told him to go find another revenue source or try it a different day. We said NO!!! Listen to the voters. It's not the cities job to be competing with the private sector! "

Crom wrote on May 7, 2008 12:25 PM:

" Maybe if there were plans for a shooting range and a few mechanical bulls in the rec center then it would have passed. "

To Melinda Cummings wrote on May 7, 2008 12:11 PM:

" You could start by buying a family membership at the YMCA which actually costs less than what the city planned on charging you had the new rec center been built. Support the facilities we have and help them grow. Also, Cheyenne Parks and Recreation has a terrific summer program for kids as do many church's. "

Vicki wrote on May 7, 2008 12:09 PM:

" you do realize, don't you, that regardless of if cheyenne builds the rec center or not, you are still being taxed - you weren't voting on whether to pay the tax or not, you are voting on which projects to spend the tax money "

JO wrote on May 7, 2008 11:59 AM:

" I agree that Cheyenne should have a rec center, but I voted against proposition 4. Cheyenne needs to take care of a few other pressing things before they add a rec center to the list. The price tag is a little ridiculous too. Cheyenne could build a reasonably sized rec centers on both the south side and the north side for the same price as the one mega rec center that was proposed. "

Victory Limerick wrote on May 7, 2008 11:29 AM:

" There once was a planned Rec Center.

Cost you six bucks a head to enter.

For a family of four ducks

That's twent-four bucks.

Cheaper to migrate for the winter.

"

Sun Valley Resident wrote on May 7, 2008 11:24 AM:

" Our Mayor and Council are so far out of touch with their constituents that the only way we can try and get their attention is to vote no on all their projects. It will continue this way until we get a Mayor, City Engineer and City Traffic Engineer who will come out and put 12th street back the way it was before they ruined it. And to Runner Chick: If Georgia Broyles hopes to stay on the council she better quit being a 'bobble head' yes vote to Spiker, Seagraves and Collins. We've had enough of these do nothing council people. Time for some changes. "

Ice_Man wrote on May 7, 2008 11:21 AM:

" The way I see it is this. The people couldnt be bothered with a rec center...but they can give the govt more than 30million for more...OFFICES?! are you kidding? like we need any more state/county/city buildings. Thats whats important to Cheyenne yet again...welcome to the good-ole-boy club. Nowhere in the country is it more evident than in this place called Cheytown. Hooray for old ranch money...growth stunted again! Good job! Be proud. At least the cows have grass to eat and the county gets more office space...'cause thats waaaaaay more important. "

BroncoChick wrote on May 7, 2008 11:21 AM:

" What a sad day for Cheyenne. I've heard so many older folks saying how the youth of this city are delinquents and someone should do something about it. Well, here was one possible solution. Have you been to Evanston? They have a beautiful rec center! How can a city that size get a rec center and we cannot? Not to mention the rec center had facilities planned for EVERYONE of ALL ages. And for the person that commented about parks and rec not being able to manage their current facilities -- well, don't you think it would be much easier to manage one, combined facility than 10 different itty-bitty facilities around town? And, saddest of all, the Cheyenne Parks and Rec Gymnastics program will continue to be forced to operate in an extremely small facility. How sad that the voters of Cheyenne would rather see the other gymnastics facility on Carlson be the only big place in town. And, if you are paying for instruction at that facility you are paying a lot more than the 6th penny sales tax. "

Confused wrote on May 7, 2008 11:14 AM:

" I am CONFUSED when people whine about there being nothing for your children to do. My kids and I are plenty busy. So busy in fact that we most likely would never set foot in the Wreck Center. Soccer, Baseball, school sports, current Parks & Rec sports, private sports, bike riding etc, etc. The only way this City will get the Wreck Center is if it does it in the manner that it got the Taco Johns Events Center, which they will do!!! Mark my words. Prepare dear naysayers for the tongue lashing we're going to get from Mr. Editor. They will never learn. "

Youthless and Toothless wrote on May 7, 2008 11:12 AM:

" I'm glad it didn't pass. This will give the young people more chances to do more Meth and commit crimes against property and the citizens of Laramie County. Thank you voters for making sure the youth of Cheyenne have nothing to do except drugs. I agree Cheyenne is fine like it has always been...Youthless and Toothless. I think I will go to the Mall and steal something right now to pay for more Meth. Oh wait that happened last week. "

Patrick wrote on May 7, 2008 11:08 AM:

" I don't know about most of the people who voted against the rec center, but I voted against it mainly because of the location. Not everyone lives on the north side. How about a facility that is centrally located? We do need something for young people to do, but this was not it the way it was planned. I have an idea. Why not take an existing complex like the old Central High School and turn that into a recreation facility just as could have been done with the old Johnson Jr Hi building. Let's think beyond our noses please. "

Nowhere to Turn wrote on May 7, 2008 10:58 AM:

" The rec center has failed. I guess I have no place to do push-ups now. Except for my living room. And my basement. And my bedroom. And my garage. And the Y. And SmartSports. And Curves. And Capitol Fitness. And the base. And the park. What will I do without a 55 million dollar rec center? "

Mind Changed wrote on May 7, 2008 10:57 AM:

" I did vote YES for the rec center for a lot of the same reasons others voted yes. My children having things and many more reasons. After Reading the comments of those that voted no I am glad it did not pass. We have Taco Johns event center that could have been expanded!! money for our kids Schools would have been nice. The small towns had the right Idea they asked for money on things that there city actually need!! I have never supported Spiker I want him gone but thats my opinion lets get fresh blood into office! "

To Chelsea wrote on May 7, 2008 10:57 AM:

" It is called bad parenting. That is why kids get into meth, the rec center wont ever be able to stop bad parenting never ever! The kids that would get into meth or be big drinkers are going to turn out like that no matter what we have. Those parents wouldn't be bringing their children to the rec center and by the price to go to it I would rather take my children to the park and walk around the lake do things as a family, nothing the rec center would help. It wouldn't be a magic center people it wont make us grow and it wont do anything except add another YMCA to the community which you pay only a small ammount more than the rec center would have been. Open your eyes and stop thinking in a fantasy world. "

RT wrote on May 7, 2008 10:55 AM:

" While I support the rec center and voted "yes", I do believe that it would be better to use alternative funding.

Solicit businesses in town for donations as well as individuals, then hold a special bond election to fund the balance. "

another native wrote on May 7, 2008 10:50 AM:

" I'm also glad the rec center didn't pass, the City needs to focus on getting started on Romero Park....oh wait that's something on the south side of town-can't have anything nice there???? People wonder, like "Bella" why Cheyenne looks bad...it's because all of the focus is for the North or East side of town!! Let's start making the South side look attractive and let's start with Romero Park!!!!! "

Young Grandma wrote on May 7, 2008 10:46 AM:

" I voted yes because I felt my grankids needed it but to be perfectly honest deep down I am relieved it didn't pass - #1 - the cost and #2 the location - Dell Range is too crowded as it is now - There has to be "city owned" land somewhere else in this town! - Gee try some middle ground (pun intended) for a change. "

Congrats Cheyenne Sort of... wrote on May 7, 2008 10:42 AM:

" Three out of four passed so the sxith penny tax will return which is a good thing. At least there will be some progress and enhancement in Cheyenne during the coming years. Unfortunately, I think the rec center was just to extravagant for some people to buy into. Hopefully, the city can find some other revenue sources and can maybe build a scaled down rec center piece by piece. It'll take longer, but it could still happen, just like the North Park. I have a feeling this thing's not completely over. Just slowed quite a bit. "

To to burns mayor wrote on May 7, 2008 10:37 AM:

" What is your problem. The 6th penny is not "cheynne tax" it is the whole area around cheynne too. They pay the tax also why should they not get anything from it. It is rude of you to even think that you are queen. I don't live in Burns I am a cheynne resident and have been my whole life, but I'm not too far into myself than to realize that others deserve the money too. "

Million Reasons This Failed wrote on May 7, 2008 10:35 AM:

" Spiker, you're a moron. Out of touch. Out of time. Good Riddance. Maybe you can put a stairmaster in the new skywalk and get your indoor exercise that way. You idiot. "

Unbelievable wrote on May 7, 2008 10:34 AM:

" So...what we need before we finish what we've started are more projects such as a shooting range? If what you all are saying is true you should have voted down everything in favor of finishing what we've started...correct? No, what this says is that shooting a gun at a target trumps the health, fitness and well-being of our community, especially our youth and senior population. IDIOTS! "

DP wrote on May 7, 2008 10:33 AM:

" Bella, how would the rec center make the city look better? Obviously the majority of the people did not feel it that way. "

DP wrote on May 7, 2008 10:31 AM:

" Once they can figure out how to finish a project on the 6th penny then we can have a huge project like the rec center, but I'm very happy that it got turned down by the most important people...The voters!!! Good job everyone who voted NO, now maybe we can get all the other projects done. I'm excited about the future of Cheyenne and surrounding areas. My problem with the rec was that I will have to pay for it with the 6th penny then when it's built I will have to pay even more. With the economy the way it is voting NO was a good thing. "

Adam wrote on May 7, 2008 10:30 AM:

" Cheyenne voters are brilliant.

Ltes spend $13000 per person in Albin, 8,000 in Burns, and $6000 in Pine Bluffs.

BUT lets spend less than $100 in Cheyenne.

Lets do another center half way and have it be unsuccessful too. What a waste. We should have spent the money and done it right.

But lets build a Childcare center in Pine Bluffs? Are you serious?

FOOLS! You owe us ALBIN<BURNS<PINE "

The Final Spike Through Spiker wrote on May 7, 2008 10:29 AM:

" Hate to tell all you Yaysayers "I told you so." Actually I don't hate that at all. Hey all you Yaysayers: I told you so. The people have spoken. "

never live in Cheyenne unless you own a gun wrote on May 7, 2008 10:25 AM:

" Well the people have spoken, too bad those people are gun owners with big bellies that need to do more than hunt wildlife and play cowboy. I no longer live in Cheyenne so my vote doesn't count, but it is obvious how much the city has changed to anyone living there or not, and it is time to educate the newest crop of young voters how to save the city/community. "

Unbelievable wrote on May 7, 2008 10:22 AM:

" You cannot vote down growth. It only shows the ignorance of this city to attempt to do so. You cannot avoid growth. It will happen, it's an eventuality. "

To WYO Native wrote on May 7, 2008 10:22 AM:

" You can add the spin the city tried to do. Rick Parrish saying that the rec center was needed as much as the police and fire. Rick and Todd Feezer couldn't come up with the numbers when asked on the radio, the center costs going from 55 to 58 million and my favorite Mayor Spiker saying.. it is only $42.00 a month and it is not that much.. Gentlemen I wouldn't of voted no..if you didn't try to spin me. I think a rec center is needed..well parts of it..like the field house but not the extra pork you put in it. Something for everyone... now nothing for no one because of your foolishness. "

Unbelievable wrote on May 7, 2008 10:20 AM:

" Why am I not surprised that the rec center, something that would have been very good for this community didn't pass. Why am I not surprised that a short sighted project such as remodeling the terminal of an airport that a) is located in the middle of a residential area and will need to be relocated eventually as Cheyenne grows and takes on more routes with larger aircraft and b) is only used by corporations and government employyes stupid enough to pay the exhorbitant cost to fly from Cheyenne to Denver versus driving and finally c)doesn't have the infrastructure to handle more routes, traffic and customers. See, I think that the rec center was sold all wrong. If it was sold to the public with the following attributes it would have won:
-It will only be open one week out of the year.
-It will be run by over worked and abused volunteers.
-It will sell overpriced, bad food.
-It will charge much more in entry fee then it worth.
-There will be drunk, urband cowboys everywhere.
By the way what did it cost to build that den of animal abuse which is used ONE TIME A YEAR?

"

private-interprizer wrote on May 7, 2008 10:18 AM:

" Great job voters its the private business that keeps Cheyenne growing not the city trying to shut us down and create a monopoly.. spend some money on the roads and the sidewalks. "

Bus Them wrote on May 7, 2008 10:18 AM:

" Let all of the naysayers to a new recreation center line up and bus them to Greeley, Laramie, Fort Collins, and other towns to show them what an opportunity they missed out on. Or just bus them out of town to Albin,Burns and Pine Bluffs to enjoy what Cheyenne is paying for in those small towns. Why will Cheyenne people support county projects but vote down the recreation center? Are they nuts. Please think what you have missed when you are paying for the 6c tax for Burns, Pine Bluffs, Albin. Go figure. "

Chris wrote on May 7, 2008 10:12 AM:

" This is truly disappointing.

You would think Cheyenne could do something RIGHT for a change, but oh no. We can't fund something that would make this a better place to live for young people and families. Forget that. We want to continue to force our young people and families to live in other cities that have supports and benefits for them.

You know, eventually all of the old fuddy duddies who kept this from passing will be long gone, maybe then people who can think about the future will make this happen. "

To Bummer wrote on May 7, 2008 10:06 AM:

" If you are so tired of living in a giant trailer park, then I'd suggest that you get a better job and MOVE. It isn't rocket science. "

Thank-You wrote on May 7, 2008 10:01 AM:

" I am glade to see this go down the tube. Why is it that everytime these citys want something they want to tax people that never use or go to these citys? It is time to have a city tax not make everyone in the county pay for something they never use. Maybe we need a tea party. "

Bella wrote on May 7, 2008 9:56 AM:

" I don't care how you get it but Cheyenne people need a Rec Center. Look around. Cheyenne is looking bad "

Adam wrote on May 7, 2008 9:55 AM:

" The most important thing to take away from this is how stupid our elected officials are, both in planning large projects beyond any reasonable wants or needs and in slapping projects together into a single proposition that have nothing to do with each other. "

To Burns mayor wrote on May 7, 2008 9:51 AM:

" Hopefully it's "a wake up call" to the Burns mayor that as a Cheyenne resident I will no longer support your small town projects. If it weren't for Cheyenne tax payers, the small towns in eastern Laramie County wouldn't have anything, we supported your projects, the least you could have done was support ours. Mayor Spiker will find a different way to fund this Rec. Center, no doubt in my mind. "

Bummer wrote on May 7, 2008 9:50 AM:

" What a huge disappointment. I am so tired of the negative naysayers these folks would have us on dirt roads. They don't care one bit about Cheyenne. Please lets turn Cheyenne into a nice place. I am so tired of living in big trailer park named Cheyenne Wyoming. "

Young Professional wrote on May 7, 2008 9:42 AM:

" Well slap me in the face and call this young guy a "NAYSAYER"! Oh wait a minute . . . do you all hear that? It's called the voice of change, or perhaps the voice of reason. I voted NO, but I would have supported it if the city had completed it's many outstanding obligations. Does anyone remember that Pershing was supposed to be widened to the base gates? Or how about the viaduct (sorry a story that talks about what you hope to do does not cut it), or perhaps we should discuss the Romero Park? I know that some of you will blame the park on Pete and Judy, and I'm okay with that. I think the next steps should be: Vote out the entire crew that pretends to be running the city, Complete outstanding projects, repair the crappy roads in this city, and THEN ask for millions of dollars for the Rec Center -- oh yeah, put it in a location that can be accessed by those that will actually use the place. "

Melinda Cummings wrote on May 7, 2008 9:36 AM:

" Although disappointed in the outcome of the vote, I will work harder for this center to be built in our community. I am starting today to look into everything I can do for my own children's future. "

Wyo Native wrote on May 7, 2008 9:33 AM:

" Some reasons why the rec center was voted down:

1. The cost. $55 million is way too much for a rec center for a City of our size. Some people whine because Laramie has a rec center. Laramie's center cost $11 million. Perhaps Cheyenne should have aimed for something in the $20 million range and it would have stood a better chance of passing.

2. The recreation department. They can't manage the facilities they do have. Why should we entrust more to them? Why should we give them more job security?

3. The city itself. People got tired of hearing about the rec center from the City. The City is supposed to be neutral in this whole thing. Yet, they wasted untold hours putting together mailings and advising people to vote for the rec center.

4. People realized that it's not the City's responsibility to provide a rec center. The rec center doesn't provide anything that Cheyenne doesn't already have.

5. The Taco John's Center. People are mad that the City bought that arena without consulting the voting public. There was a bit of backlash towards the City. "

truth hurts wrote on May 7, 2008 9:30 AM:

" Give me a V
Give me an I
Give me a C
Give me a T
Give me an O
Give me an R
Give me a Y
What's that spell?....
VICTORY!!!!RA,RA,REE ... KICK 'EM IN THE KNEE!! "

Jimbo wrote on May 7, 2008 9:30 AM:

" Listen up crybabies. The people have spoken. Cheyenne does not need a rec center! Cheyenne is fine just like it's always been. We don't need to grow, we don't need families and we dnot's need young people. If you need recreation, go to the park (another huge waste of money!). IF that's not enough for you, MOVE! "

L_Climb wrote on May 7, 2008 9:28 AM:

" Look - people don't want government to compete with the private sector. Run harder and faster at the Y or a private facility. Millions to build and millions more to operate forever. Taxpayer cost to operate private facilities: ZERO! Way to go, Cheyenne!!! "

Chelsea wrote on May 7, 2008 9:27 AM:

" See what I mean Wyoming doesn't care about our children all they want is a stupid shooting range are serious maybe if you stupid rednecks would get off your butt you'd see that our children need stuff to do why do you think they're all addicted to meth. Or drunks. "

CheyenneNative wrote on May 7, 2008 9:27 AM:

" I love my hometown!
However there are too many city projects that need to be finished before we start another one - like a stupid rec. center. We don't need it right now!!! "

Spiker is Done wrote on May 7, 2008 9:23 AM:

" I'm glad this wreck center failed. The city already has swimming pools. There is a gym at the Y. And private gyms all over town. This was a stupid idea. Seeing it fail restores my faith in the community. I think I'll drink a beer to that. "

Wyo Native wrote on May 7, 2008 9:21 AM:

" I hate to tell some of you guys this, but Cheyenne will still grow without a rec center. I don't understand why some people think Cheyenne is "anti-growth" because we vote down a rec center. We're not necessarily anti-growth, all we're saying is that we don't want our tax dollars used on a rec center. Plenty of other Wyoming communities have built rec centers without using public dollars. Unfortunately, Cheyenne put all its eggs into one basket with the rec center and now will not see any 6th penny money until the next election. As for the people who say they're going to move because we voted down a rec center - I wish that we could hold you to that promise. And if voting down a rec center makes Cheyenne anti-growth, well then that's the way that the citizens want to be. That's the thing about a democratic process; we get to choose the direction that we want to go. Too bad we can't vote on the charter school. "

Teddy wrote on May 7, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Spiker said he didn't see this coming? What a fine example of a mayor we have. We have bigger issues in cheyenne than a rec center.

What we have is a moyor with no forsight and tunnel vision! "

Runner Chick wrote on May 7, 2008 9:08 AM:

" I will next time run harder, faster, with more endurance to get support for the Recreation Center. Will Georgia Broyles the powerhouse on the council please lead the way. She is a lady and can do it. Fight for our children and future, Georgia. I know you can. You have Cheyenne on your mind. "

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