Kids in jail: Are we creating monsters?
By Bill McCarthy
bmccarthy@wyomingnews.com
CHEYENNE -- Wyoming jails children at a rate 2½ times the national average -- and 74 percent of those are locked up for non-violent offenses.
Only South Dakota holds children in trouble at a higher rate.
That’s according to the Kids Count 2008 report compiled by the Annie E. Casey Foundation.
“This is an area of very great concern to us,” said Deanna Frey of the Wyoming Children’s Action Alliance.
In 2006, Wyoming committed 334 youths to custody, ages 10-15, for every 100,000; South Dakota committed 373. The national average was 125.
The Children’s Action Alliance has authority over Kids Count in
Continued from A1
Wyoming, and it hosted a news conference here Thursday with child-welfare advocates on hand to discuss the findings.
Especially troubling, said Beth Evans, who works on juvenile issues for the Wyoming County Commissioners Association, is the large number of children who are held in this state for nonviolent offenses. The national average is 66 percent.
For the most part they are being held for “typical obnoxious teen misbehavior,” she said. That includes underage drinking and marijuana use.
The money spent to hold them would be better used to provide treatment and services that will keep them out of jail, she said.
Wyoming is the only state that doesn’t take part in the Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Act of 1974, said Bob Mayor of St. Joseph’s Children’s Home, a private youth treatment facility in Torrington.
The federal law sets standards for locking up people under 18. Many Wyoming children in trouble with the law are tried in adult courts and sent to adult jails for relatively minor crimes, the experts said. That is in violation of the federal standards.
It’s no excuse that Wyoming is a rural state, Mayor added, since Alaska complies as do other states with remote, isolated areas.
“The Equality State we are not when it comes to juvenile justice in this state,” Mayor said.
Added Bob Quick of the Division of Juvenile Services: “The whole issue of incarceration is a black eye on what is otherwise an exemplary system.”
There are many good programs available and used well once children are assigned to them, he said.
But getting a child from the point of being taken into custody, into the appropriate court and to the appropriate program has been a problem. Often, he said, police and prosecutors are forced to make decisions about children that they’re not qualified to make and not comfortable making.
Quick and the other youth advocates said they are hopeful about a state program that is creating county-level, juvenile-service boards to assess needs of individual children as soon as possible after they are picked up.
But Tony Lewis, director of Family Services, said the service boards are no magic bullet.
Resources vary across the state as do philosophies about dealing with children in trouble, he said.
Reader Comments
solution wrote on Jun 19, 2008 3:04 PM:
" Don't put juvenile delenquints in jail for minor violations, just give them a spanking on live local tv. Like that kid in Japan that was caned for spray painting cars and cried like a little girl about the punishment even though he was only getting one of the dozen lashes the punishment called for. Oooh I like this idea better. Let's hire some professional caners from Japan to do it! "
DM wrote on Jun 19, 2008 3:38 AM:
" Teens need consequences for their actions but they are also still in the learning mode of life and need to be directed. They need to learn responsibility and to be praised for their accomplishments. Instead of treating them like animals, we need to teach them how to be responsible. Let them work and make them pay some bills or rent just to show them what it is like in the real world. Spanking a kid only teaches them that it is okay to hit someone. Spanking is only beneficial to the angry parent who believes that hitting someone is the answer to the problem. It is degrading to the kid. How would you like a police officer to come up and hit you for running a red light or for making an illegal turn? Get a clue. Hitting only makes the problem worse and doesn't teach the kid a damned thing. Reward them for good grades, pay them for doing household chores and fine them for breaking the rules. Teach them about drugs, sex and violence while they are still young. They need to know the facts. They are molds of clay. Choose who they hang with. "
shud up wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:26 PM:
" Hey let the state take your kids. They can care for them, educate them and dress them until at which time they are ready for college then, they can come home and tell you how you are the best parents in the world and would you loan them $5.00 for a burger and drink because they would be perfect. You people make me laugh!! In case you missed the TV program there is no perfect way to raise children and for you parents who think they do such a bang up job. Go follow your kids around one day and see what they are really in to. I think your kid is the one selling drugs out of the back of the family SUV. I could be wrong..... "
Someone slap Ralph please wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:16 PM:
" Hey Ralph... I believe it's "If you do the Crime you will do the time" or from the old Berretta Series "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, don't do it". Me thinks Ralph drinks to much and has to much free time on the puter.
Oye! "
Oye! "
Ruth wrote on Jun 18, 2008 1:16 PM:
" I raised four kids. I've given 4 spankings (in total) to them, so you don't need to knock the kids around to make them behave. I worked full-time and went to school. Rather than seeing it as child-care hurting them, I showed them a good work ethic, plus I showed them the took responsibility it takes to support a family. They are all good kids (3 are now adults), no trouble with the law, good grades, 3 have gone to college, the other is still in school and cares about it. Manners and respect were my top priorities when teaching my kids. If you respect YOURSELF you don't commit crimes, you don't abuse your body with alcohol and drugs. Kids will live up to the expectations they are surrounded with, whether it be from their peers, teachers, and/or family etc. "
Ulysses wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:00 AM:
" Bring back spanking. Period. When I went to school we didn't act up for fear of the principal's paddle. Take away the "Everyone Wins" in contests, Last Place shouldn't win anything.
Kid's today are coddled to the point wherein they live in an alternate reality where the world is made to serve them instead of vice versa. They have no grasp of the consequences of acting incorrectly in our society, lessons that seem to have fallen off of the Parent Curriculum.
Then the negative influences. Kid's emulate the culture that they see. When a kid hears Gangster rap for example, they emulate the "Gangster" lifestyle which has been glamorized by the music industry.
When parents, and American Society in General start taking a hard look at how their children are being influenced, and raised we will find children whom understand the consequences of their actions. Until then, if a child commits an act of criminal intent then they should be punished. There should be no get out of jail card for kids that commit the act of murder. "
Kid's today are coddled to the point wherein they live in an alternate reality where the world is made to serve them instead of vice versa. They have no grasp of the consequences of acting incorrectly in our society, lessons that seem to have fallen off of the Parent Curriculum.
Then the negative influences. Kid's emulate the culture that they see. When a kid hears Gangster rap for example, they emulate the "Gangster" lifestyle which has been glamorized by the music industry.
When parents, and American Society in General start taking a hard look at how their children are being influenced, and raised we will find children whom understand the consequences of their actions. Until then, if a child commits an act of criminal intent then they should be punished. There should be no get out of jail card for kids that commit the act of murder. "
Ralphinphnx wrote on Jun 17, 2008 11:05 PM:
" So stop babying the
little monsters and
teach them that if you
do the crime then you
will do the crime. "
little monsters and
teach them that if you
do the crime then you
will do the crime. "
to mememe wrote on Jun 17, 2008 10:08 PM:
" You are right about that and it is sad what is happening to kids these days because their parents don't want them or aren't responsible enough to raise them. Kids are punished for having poor parents or no parents at all. Hang in there and use your past as a learning experience. Instead of allowing it to make your heart bitter, use it to strengthen it and to help kids who need people like you who have walked their mile. Too many have been lost and forgotten in homes with people who do not care about them and we all wonder why so many walk the streets and break laws to survive. No one wakes up one day and decides "I want to be a criminal from now on." You can't convince society to open their eyes and to see what they refuse to see. They think that they have ll of the answers yet nothing has changed. Society is the true problem. "
A Citizen wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:11 PM:
" The research and statistics are clear. Once a child has been incarcerated, the liklihood of that child re-offending increases exponentially. Statewide, it appears that little consistency in dealing with youth offenders exists. Currently, Wyoming DFS is moving forward with an assessment tool intended to identify the childs level of risk and more importantly, his/her needs. I commend DFS for the effort, but the overwhelming challenge will be getting the judiciary to LISTEN to recommendations and apply appropriate intervention. "
mememe-Santos R. wrote on Jun 17, 2008 6:07 PM:
" Look at whats happening at the high school's colleges...no respect with no respect there's no love, when you don't have love you have a mess. Please remember these are still children. "
mememe wrote on Jun 17, 2008 5:56 PM:
" I wrote something about this a few months ago on MySpace. We do Creat Monsters, When we take shots at people or push them till there at wits end. Most everybody that knows me, I smile alot but dont kno my pain. RESPECT for one self and OTHERS. Thats what these kids need.
Santos R. "
Santos R. "
Thank god wrote on Jun 17, 2008 11:34 AM:
" Deb Harrington is not a supervisor anymore! Close down the jail and send all these kids to be supervised by JEMS and the outstanding programs they offer. Wyoming is backwards in their approach to juvenile justice in general. "
katie bear wrote on Jun 17, 2008 11:21 AM:
" For those concerned about the costs of reforming juvenile justice in Wyoming: You're already paying for it. Evans is right. There's a better way to spend the money we have. I'm for treating kids who screw up right, for setting an example of good behavior, for demanding they be held accountable. It's not mutually exclusive. "
But what about wrote on Jun 17, 2008 8:44 AM:
" The Cheyenne Frontier Days Rodeo???? All the kids go there, and I thought they were somehow learning family values by watching animals brutalized and killed???
Or not? "
Or not? "
foxyangel wrote on Jun 17, 2008 4:00 AM:
" I agree that punishment should fit the crime and today's youth are being mistreated and jerked around by the penal system. Your right you are creating monsters. These kids weren't as bad BEFORE they went to jail and learned how to be better criminals and you are JUST NOW figuring that out? I know a guy who went to prison at 15 years old and grew up in there. He was basically raised by criminals. He was afraid of being released back into society. He went back 4 times, and will probably go back again because he was raised there and it is all that he knows. Some of his best friends are lifers. Why not be there where his friends and family are then in a society that shuns him because of his prison record and who makes it virtually impossible for him to get a decent job or a LIFE beyond a criminal life which is much easier since the criminal side of society won't judge him? It is easier to steal then to try to get a job from you judgmental fools and earn the cash to buy what he needs. GET A CLUE WYOMING. "
TO stupid cheyenne adults wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:51 AM:
" Kids are GOING to do all of the things that ALL of you goody 2 shoe so called adults did So think back to the stone ages at some of the things that you pulled as minors and think again before you go running your mouths about what today's youth shouldn't be doing. If you think for one minute that you were perfect then you need a reality check. Drinking alcohol isn't bad enough to go to jail for otherwise all of you closet drunks should be there right now. That goes for all of you alcoholics with cirrhosis of the liver and all of you trashy "adults" who smoke pot in your living rooms thinking that no one will know. Jail is not the place for a minor who drinks just because they haven't reached the age that society chose as the legal drinking age. I know a lot of 21 and older fools who are less responsible than a 12 year old that drank a couple of beers. If you all know so much then why is there still a problem? If you have all of the answers then why haven't you figured this one out yet???????huh?????? "
To Karen wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:39 AM:
" If you aren't a parent then you need to shut the hell up and if you are a parent then be prepared to do some jail time yourself. "
To Draxis Axhand aka DAVE wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:37 AM:
" Thank you. Your statement was one of few that made sense. I can not believe how many anti-teen and anti-kid adults there are in this hillbilly town. If you people hate kids so much then why do you spend so much time on your backs? Get fixed and allow the rest of us to raise the future of America because you are obviously lacking the common sense or the compassion that it takes to raise kids. No one is perfect. They have to be taught the things that you expect them to know. A 2 year old doesn't know that something is HOT. You have to teach them about the dangers in life and protect them. It doesn't stop at the age of 2,3,4,8,16,etc it is a life long process and if you insist on being parents then you need to commit to the long haul. Stop being lazy and stupid and believing that spanking and screaming is going to solve anything. The only thing that will create is a wall between you and your child. Once that wall is up, it is nearly impossible to break through and you WILL lose them. Parents must grow up FIRST! "
Frustrated wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:27 AM:
" I'm really puzzled by all of you blamming the parent. I'll have you know, it's not just parents, it's the teachers, principles, other people that are supposed to be an example to our kids as well.
My kids were doing just fine until they were being picked on by teachers, school bus driver and the principle. Then it's left up to us parents to try our best to get our child through this. They don't understand why they get into trouble for something they didn't do. I have proof that this has happened & all I got was an appology, my kids didn't get anything. Now with all this that has happened, one of my kids have had a very hard time in school and ended up with medical problems due to the stress from it all. A CHINS was filed for my child missing too much school due to sever medical problems. All I'm trying to tell all of you dumb whitted people that want to put the blame on the parents, is there are others that influence our children too. Parents can only do so much or YES they can be removed from the home! "
My kids were doing just fine until they were being picked on by teachers, school bus driver and the principle. Then it's left up to us parents to try our best to get our child through this. They don't understand why they get into trouble for something they didn't do. I have proof that this has happened & all I got was an appology, my kids didn't get anything. Now with all this that has happened, one of my kids have had a very hard time in school and ended up with medical problems due to the stress from it all. A CHINS was filed for my child missing too much school due to sever medical problems. All I'm trying to tell all of you dumb whitted people that want to put the blame on the parents, is there are others that influence our children too. Parents can only do so much or YES they can be removed from the home! "
To grizzled old man wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:26 AM:
" I'd like to tan your hide for even insinuating that kids' running through sprinklers is a CRIME! I myself would love to see all kids doing that. If you can't handle it, get some ear plugs, or do everyone a favor and move somewhere else. Preferably out in the middle of nowhere. I hope you aren't a parent or a grandparent because you are a nasty person. "
To realist wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:14 AM:
" My husband's father used to throw cold water on him when he wet the bed (a genetic problem that he outgrew). When that didn't work, he used electricity and electrocuted him. He used to tie baggies around his thing at night out of fear that he would be beaten for wetting his bed. He was beaten, choked, kicked, and called every name in the book. In those days, no one intervened to protect the kids. THERE HAS to be laws to keep people from abusing children. ABUSE is not the answer. A swat on the but can be taken too far by the wrong person and SOMEONE has to step in and stop these animals from crossing the line. In one article you people are against the baby shaker and the child beater and in another you say that kids aren't beaten enough. You are a hypocrites and should not be parents. People with your way of thinking are the ones who are creating the monsters. Jail is not the answer and beating them is not the answer. Those of you who do not agree should not have kids. I raised 4. I must have done SOMETHING right. "
know it all cheyenne wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:04 AM:
" I remember a time when kids worked outside instead of sitting around playing violent and nasty games on playstations and gameboys. There are more naked people, stealing and killing on those games then I have ever seen on TV! Let them have jobs before they turn 15. Give them something to do after school and on weekends and during the summer instead of sitting around playing those useless games and wasting their minds away. My husband had his first job when he was 12 years old on a ranch. Talk about hard work. He was cut and fit and made his own money to buy his first car. He appreciated it because it wasn't given to him. He earned it. His father wasn't much of a role model because he was a very abusive and mean but he overcame the abuse and made himself into a better man for it. Kids need to learn the meaning of responsibility and respect for themselves and others before they can be expected to grow up to be respectable citizens of society. Give them the tools and let them take it from there. They don't need to be controlled. They need to be GUIDED. "
know it all cheyenne wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:48 AM:
" There is no better place to become a criminal than in jail. It is a school for crime. If you want more criminals, send them to jail young so that they can learn from the more seasoned criminals. They may have to take a beating or two to toughen them up and piss them off even more. It is our tax dollars that are strengthening the criminal mind. Go ahead. Decide against programs that may HELP turn a young person's life around rather then allowing them to sit in a crowded jail with a group of low life thugs who have nothing to offer except more brainwashing and negative influence and you will all see just how bad this world can get. Soon there will be more prisons then schools. There is no one to blame but those with the power to change it. You all think you have all of the answers. I have a brother who was failed by the system and by his parents. He doesn't even know how to interview for a job at McDonalds. No one took the time to teach him how to be a respectable human being. Now he is in prison. "
RENAROSE continued.. wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:17 AM:
" Not every kid is locked up because they did something against the law. Some of them are lost in the system with nowhere else to go and end up with foster families who don't care about them or love them they just need a little extra dough. One of the foster homes that I was in was a religious hell hole.Then I found out that the preacher foster dad was having sex with one of his foster daughters. The foster mother was a slave driving abusive witch. I ended up running away from there. Many things that have happened to me in my life were not my fault. I had to grow up and realize that I didn't have the power to change any of that but I had the power to change my future and after a long hard lesson and many sacrifices, I have made something out of my life. Now, a mother of 4 and a good paying career, I know what it's like to live on both sides of the fence. It would have been much easier had my mother and the system not failed me. Let's help all children....instead of losing them along the way. "
RENAROSE wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:08 AM:
" First of all, it takes parents who love and respect their kids to raise them right. I was a juvenile delinquent....why?I still don't know.I didn't drink, never smoked, never broke the law.I was simply the daughter of a mother who cared more about getting laid and partying then being a mother. Her kids got in the way of her romantic escapades with multiple strangers so at the age of 12, I was incarcerated first in a group home then in foster homes then in the girl school, treatment centers (remember, I had never used drugs) and crisis centers. (Dad went to prison when I was 10).One crisis center was closed down because the male authority figures were raping the young girls and beating up the young boys. What kind of therapy was that? So yeah, I got pregnant at 17 so that I could get emancipated and have some freedom.Boy was I in for a ride. I had a lot of growing up to do and a child to raise. Now, that child is 14 and doing great. He's not perfect but he is a straight A and B student and tries really hard. It's not all the kids'fault. "
mememe wrote on Jun 16, 2008 11:50 PM:
" As a ward of the state. When I was car sick and couldn't travel with my foster family. The sate put me in a group home till thy gut back. Most of those kids were in there because thy were to young to go to prison.25+yrs. ago (DCFS) "
To Grizzeled Old Mam wrote on Jun 16, 2008 3:14 PM:
" Better running throught the sprinklers, laughing and waking you up then running the streets a muck. Poor old man, didn't get to finish your nap. gezzzzz. "
to David wrote on Jun 16, 2008 12:15 PM:
" You may be right when you say that Wyoming chooses not to take part in the JJA.Thats why we are getting no federal funding! Also why a few months back,the head of the JJC resigned due to the frustation of how our Wyoming kids are treated!! Go to the Casper Star Tribune and look up all the articles that they have done on this subject!Then tell me that nothings wrong with the way juveniles are treated in this system!My son was in a placement and then after 11 months,ended up at the boys school.All for things that if an adult did, there would have been NO consequences!!Punishment should fit the crime.. "
To Amazed wrote on Jun 16, 2008 12:14 PM:
" If we follow your logic, it's fine with you if your kids are getting high. Tell us, Oh Enlightened One, what reasoning do you use on your teenager to put the bong down and go to bed by 10 PM on a school night? It is ok for YOUR kids to get high, right? And if you don't have kids, you're not qualified to say anything on this topic. "
Mom of Teen wrote on Jun 16, 2008 11:43 AM:
" As a Mom of a teen son, I can say first hand that raising a teen can be tough... But you know what? If you sign on to be a parent, then you better be willing to put in the time and energy it takes to raise a child today. I'm not perfect, have never claimed to be. But my son knows right from wrong, and I insist he toes the line... I do agree that a lot of the problems we have today is the lack of proper parenting. Again, I'm not perfect, but my son is respectful of others because I insist on it. It's all in the balance of love and discipline, you discipline your children because you love them! I will never be accused of being my sons "Friend." I'm his Mom, but that doesn't mean that I can't keep those lines of communication open so that he feels like he can share stuff with me like he does his friends. Bottom line, Parents need to put in the "time" to raise their children so that their children are not "doing time" later on. "
To Reality wrote on Jun 16, 2008 9:16 AM:
" That's why I stay away from "cannibus"!Now, cannabis, on the other hand... "
mememe wrote on Jun 16, 2008 5:51 AM:
" I was one of those kids. But I gut in to sports and other act., I had great teachers and friend that supported me. Most everybody to day has forgotten their children, there working a lot hours to pay there bills. So as a great city that we are lets try to help. Not look down on them, or the children. Volunteer, help your friends or family with their children. You will all benefit in the end, but most of the children and are great CITY! "
I wonder wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:36 PM:
" How many of these nay sayers are aware of many new programs that have been developed here in Laramie County? For example the Juvenile Diversion Program designed to prevent children from coming into the "system". It is operated by DFS. There is also family court that allows the judge to work one on one with the families without bringing the child into the system. These are both recent additions that I personally hope to see flourish. "
high for Barney and Mr. R wrote on Jun 15, 2008 10:01 PM:
" I think all these gang bangers should have to watch Barney over and over, they might just learn something.
To bad Mr Rogers is dead, some reruns of him might scare some of these thugs straight.
Isn't that right boys and girls, will you be my friend? "
To bad Mr Rogers is dead, some reruns of him might scare some of these thugs straight.
Isn't that right boys and girls, will you be my friend? "
David wrote on Jun 15, 2008 8:11 PM:
" To Stuff It:
You are wrong, Wyoming, does not take part in the JJA.
We are not "not in compliance."
Wyoming chooses not to be a part of it.
You would have to be part of the program to be "not in compliance.
The JJA is just another stupid piece of legislation that breeds crime.
The punishment is supposed to fit the crime, it doesn't matter if the criminal is 12 or 85.
That's why we have these problems, criminals are treated with kid gloves and get an automatic clean slate when they're 18. "
You are wrong, Wyoming, does not take part in the JJA.
We are not "not in compliance."
Wyoming chooses not to be a part of it.
You would have to be part of the program to be "not in compliance.
The JJA is just another stupid piece of legislation that breeds crime.
The punishment is supposed to fit the crime, it doesn't matter if the criminal is 12 or 85.
That's why we have these problems, criminals are treated with kid gloves and get an automatic clean slate when they're 18. "
Reality wrote on Jun 15, 2008 11:17 AM:
" In response to amazed:
Think about this, your driving down the road, the guy behind you is smoking cannibis. He tailgates like most drivers in cheyenne. Then, someone thinking they own the streets, walks in front of your car. You slam on the brakes to try not to hit them. The guy on cannibus isn't gonna react to your sudden stop for another 100 feet and your vehicle is gonna keep going up to 150-200 feet after he slammed on his breaks, assuming whats going on even registers. Cannibus causes slowed reaction times and hinders one to think clearly. I've seen people on the stuff, it is not harmless. I know a person who smoked so much the only thing she knows how to say anymore in a conversation is "wow, that's cool man" and her daughter has an enlarged brain and skull. Is behind on walking and multiple aspects of childhood development. Don' go around saying a drug is harmless until you do your homework and know what you are talking about. I don't want anyone driving who's high behind the wheel of a car. "
Think about this, your driving down the road, the guy behind you is smoking cannibis. He tailgates like most drivers in cheyenne. Then, someone thinking they own the streets, walks in front of your car. You slam on the brakes to try not to hit them. The guy on cannibus isn't gonna react to your sudden stop for another 100 feet and your vehicle is gonna keep going up to 150-200 feet after he slammed on his breaks, assuming whats going on even registers. Cannibus causes slowed reaction times and hinders one to think clearly. I've seen people on the stuff, it is not harmless. I know a person who smoked so much the only thing she knows how to say anymore in a conversation is "wow, that's cool man" and her daughter has an enlarged brain and skull. Is behind on walking and multiple aspects of childhood development. Don' go around saying a drug is harmless until you do your homework and know what you are talking about. I don't want anyone driving who's high behind the wheel of a car. "
stuff it wrote on Jun 14, 2008 3:36 PM:
" What a bunch of idiot know it alls!! If your kid isnt going through this crap then you need to butt out..Wyoming is the ONLY state not in compliance with the juvenile justice Act.Educate yourself before you go spouting out of your empty heads.. "
Realist wrote on Jun 14, 2008 7:02 AM:
" It's too bad parents and schools cannot discipline children properly. When I grew up in the '60's and '70's children were taught to respect their elders and the law. When you messed up at school you got a swat! When you messed up at home you got the belt! Those were lessons learned! The only thing a "time out" teaches is that you can act up and there will be no consequences. I believe the creation of these "monsters" begins at a young age when they learn, at school, no less, that if their parents threaten to punish them they can call the police. Is it any wonder so many of todays youth are out of control? "
The fix in the mix wrote on Jun 14, 2008 5:34 AM:
" I totally agree with the one writer on this. The real problem is that the system allows children
too many rights. The educational system should be a system devoted to training and study not the socialization and the teaching of individual needs and wants. Children are in
school for a purpose it is high time that more attention is paid to keeping them in school and not promoting alternate arrangements where their learning is concerned. Parents are responsible yes but there are other forces in our state and federal government that must be addressed to fix this problem. IMHO "
too many rights. The educational system should be a system devoted to training and study not the socialization and the teaching of individual needs and wants. Children are in
school for a purpose it is high time that more attention is paid to keeping them in school and not promoting alternate arrangements where their learning is concerned. Parents are responsible yes but there are other forces in our state and federal government that must be addressed to fix this problem. IMHO "
Draxis Axhand aka Dave wrote on Jun 14, 2008 12:38 AM:
" Having taught for 10 years in an adult facility that also housed juveniles, due to a lack of any actual juvenile facilities, as well as having taught for several years in more traditional settings, I can tell you that most incarcerated juveniles are very little different than any other young person. In fact, they are very little different than most of use who were born and grew up in Wyoming. From the tone of many of the comments I read here, I have to assume that there are a lot of adults in Wyoming, who were never Children and/or juveniles. That is rather amazing in itself. "
mememe wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:45 PM:
" The parents ,courts, & DFS are all failing these youths. Now that's the full picture. Jail will harden them. Structure have them involved in something after school, don't make them feel that there not cared for. That's probably already happened to them. Give them outs first, not punishment. "
mememe wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:32 PM:
" Yes we are creating monsters. I bet most of these kids are good. Putting them with other high risk kids is bad. Thy will learn even worse stuff. Thy just have to learn respect, DFS can help with that. Their supposed to be there for the children? Not help them be put away again. One child at a time we can make a difference. "
blow it out youre kazoo wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:29 PM:
" Like none of you ever had a beer before you were 21. I'm sure you have considering the astounding amount of drunks in this city. Man you're all just lazy. It's a lot easier to throw someone in jail than to actully provide some sort of rehabilitation and guidance. And if you think they're coming out of jail better people after being abuse and harassed by the adults you're just being nieve. Who said they were even committing adult crimes. They mention drinking and drugs in the article, which is stuff kids get into because they're young and stupid and they'll probably grow out of. I agree they should have some rehablitiation but jail is out of line and ineffective if you're tying to create good upstanding citizens. "
A Former LA cop wrote on Jun 13, 2008 5:46 PM:
" How about we tell these dirtbag parents to stop breeding. It's OK to take yourself out of the gene pool. "
LC wrote on Jun 13, 2008 2:41 PM:
" The 'monsters' are created by parents who do not care, are busy with other things and other people, the fathers aren't in their lives, the mothers are working more than one job to survive, there are no limitations placed on them, their parents want to be their friends instead of parents....the list goes on and on and on. Bottom line, these kids are out of control at home and in public. "
seriously wrote on Jun 13, 2008 2:15 PM:
" CHINS--Parents or school giving up on a child and placing them on Supervised Probation, with the possibility of out of home placement.
DFS and the court stuff any new program they don't have to pay for. Even if the child is not appropriate.
Would you put your "gifted" child in a school for mentally challenged students--NO. Same thing here. They place kids at Normative Services, who will keep the kid extended periods of time just to play sports, The boys' school to "teach them a lesson" etc...FCS or Wardle Academy when all else fails.
Worst part of this, supervisors at DFS like Deb Harrington will not even listen to staff concerns. "
DFS and the court stuff any new program they don't have to pay for. Even if the child is not appropriate.
Would you put your "gifted" child in a school for mentally challenged students--NO. Same thing here. They place kids at Normative Services, who will keep the kid extended periods of time just to play sports, The boys' school to "teach them a lesson" etc...FCS or Wardle Academy when all else fails.
Worst part of this, supervisors at DFS like Deb Harrington will not even listen to staff concerns. "
Amazed wrote on Jun 13, 2008 2:08 PM:
" Cannabis use is far safer than tobacco or alcohol. Many people use only cannabis, and they are almost always non-violent. Court records prove this to be true. So, imposing harsh penalties only serves to send kids to prisons. Which are schools for crime. Violent criminals often rape kids in prison. We shouldn't be sending kids to prison for non-violent cannabis use. No other commenter has offered any suggestions for how to resolve the issue of minors using cannabis. They just mindlessly follow the Government's harsh, failed cannabis prohibition policy. Legalization is the answer. It would remove the profit motive for organized crime to sell it. Which will drive them out of the trade. The repeal of alcohol prohibition and the reduction of crime proves that this will be true for cannabis, too. Legalization will send two excellent messages to our kids. They won't have criminals to get it from, it just won't be worth it to sell cannabis any longer. Secondly, merchant non-compliance of age restriction laws has gone down to 10%, due to enforcement efforts. Continued enforcement will reduce this percentage even further. This means that our kids are unlikely to get cannabis from merchants either. This will work. "
Katie Bear wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:39 PM:
" Is there something "monstrous" about a 15-year-old smoking cigarrettes? Or coming home drunk? Because that's what most "monster" teens do, and the state sends them to jail--adult jails in many counties. Have communities learned nothing from the abuses at juvie halls here and in Casper? Have we given up on the idea of community already, Cheyenne? "
Bob the Builder wrote on Jun 13, 2008 1:13 PM:
" I agree with most of the comments here. I sincerely believe that it all begins with the PARENTS. If the kids have structure and more importantly, consistency, they will end up having morals. Of course there are the usual teenager things that most kids will do, but they typically grow out of that. My thought on the matter of kids in jail is simple -- do the crime, spend the time. Of course when judges here choose to funnel kids into systems that they used to own or have interest in, one has to ask if the punishment level is appropriate. "
Grizzeled Old Man wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:53 PM:
" Lately, I just think the WTE is trying to put fuel in my tank. This is getting too easy! Darn near every kid in Cheyenne should be behind bars in my opinion! The teens are the worst, but I don't care how old they are! Just the other day, some kids woke me up from my early afternoon nap. They were running through a sprinkler next door, laughing it up and having a gay old time. Their parents were just sitting there watching! Why, back in my day, if we ever disturbed the neighbors, our parents would tan our hides with a hickory stick! Parents just let their kids rule the world these days. That'll end when I'm elected Mayor of Wyoming! "
Urban Guerrilla wrote on Jun 13, 2008 12:45 PM:
" it starts with the parents. feel free to not spare the rod. i wont if I get a hold of them. respect is earned and not given. and if you take, your life is will be taken!! "
Not the system wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:47 AM:
" It's not the system creating these monsters, it starts with the parents. Most parents work and stuff their kids in daycare, school, after school care, etc. If they really took the time to deal with the children they created, and stay active in their lives, things would change dramatically. How many bored kids will read books or learn constructive hobbies on their own? KIDS NEED STRUCTURE!! "
NO wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:42 AM:
" First comes the monster..then comes jail. Punishment needs to be more agressive. Isnt that what jail and prison are all about...to learn a lesson and to behave. Seems all they get nowadays is a slap on the wrist and mommy and daddy bail em out. Make em do the time for the crime. AND send them to boot camp and into the military...make them earn their keep and learn the TOUGH lesson. No more free rides.. "
Dan wrote on Jun 13, 2008 11:18 AM:
" Figures that someone would whine that we are not being nice enough to criminals young or old!! don't you know they are supposed to have more rights than the honest law abiding citizen. What we need is a labor/education camp for these little punks. Work for half the day learning a trade and going to school for the other half. But treating little demons like little angles is just insane. Every other state is full of bleeding heart cowards and look at what they are dealing with today. "
GoWho wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:25 AM:
" Sometimes the little buggers just decide they do not have to listen to you and sneak out, don't come home, ditch class etc. after being model kids until 14 or 15 years of age. The only thing that works is to send law enforcement after them to cool their jets in the clink for a couple of days in order to open their minds to something besides substance abuse and other harmful and stupid activities. "
Why Not wrote on Jun 13, 2008 10:20 AM:
" You know times have changed a lot since we were all children. If your child is out of control and doing adult crimes then yes the do deserve to go to jail and parents should have some accountability and responsibility too. Now if the parents show that they are doing the best they can to control the child there are some exceptions.
Dont get me wrong jail is a little extreme for some of the crimes so the other alternative should be public humiliation. Have them out there in chain gains in bright pink or yellow jump suits cleaning ditches, sidewalks, painting public buildings and parks. Public Service options would be a big difference because these kids dont know how to do real work. All they do is get into trouble, play video games, and sit around. If they had to work off their sentences they probably would not do the crime and think about what they did. "
Dont get me wrong jail is a little extreme for some of the crimes so the other alternative should be public humiliation. Have them out there in chain gains in bright pink or yellow jump suits cleaning ditches, sidewalks, painting public buildings and parks. Public Service options would be a big difference because these kids dont know how to do real work. All they do is get into trouble, play video games, and sit around. If they had to work off their sentences they probably would not do the crime and think about what they did. "
You Know WHo--I still know more than you wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:27 AM:
" As a former JPO and worker with at risk youth, Wyoming imposes inappropriate sentences as the norm, rather than the exception. Bumping kids to District Court and seeking out of home placement should be reserved for the most serious offenses; however, in Laramie County, it happens daily. Imposing a sentence which is too harsh results in adverse effects. The use of contract providers such as JEMS and FCS complicates matters, as there are too many governing bodies for one child, who eventually decides, it's easier just to do my time and not deal with anyone. Probation is intrusive, and ISP is even more intrusive. Assess the kids with an effective tool taylored to Wyoming, and make appropriate recommendations. Just because something is available or new, doesn't make it in the best interests of the child. DFS, at least in Cheyenne, needs to understand the system is designed for rehabilitation, not punishment. They also need to realize, good workers leave because of this mentality among the supervisors. "
average joe wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:22 AM:
" While I agree with you, I doubt anyone cares about how these kids "feels" the concern is whether we are taking a kid who otherwise made a stupid mistake and throwing them in prison with real hardcore criminals where they are very likley to learn how to be real bad guys.
If a kid is reformable, non violent and just impulsive and idiotic like most kids is it right to throw them in with real scum? This is a real concern since most who end up in prision are more likely to be life long criminals,after all you are who you associate with even if your associations are not by choice. "
If a kid is reformable, non violent and just impulsive and idiotic like most kids is it right to throw them in with real scum? This is a real concern since most who end up in prision are more likely to be life long criminals,after all you are who you associate with even if your associations are not by choice. "
Joseph wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:20 AM:
" I agree in part with Pat. However there is a growing concern that are Justice System is out of date as well as the thinking of the Judges and District Attorneys. It's never been about helping reform the offenders of any age but the convictions that can be placed upon a resume. Once an offender comes into the court system here in Laramie County they will be intemidated and persuaded to plead guilty before they are allowed to think of alternatives. We also have to look at mis-imformation and mis-leading stastistics that are being used by Law Enforcement and the Justice System that manipulate numbers in order to secure more Federal Dollars which was the case for the addition to the Laramie County Detention Center. Yes, we all have had a hand in creating our youth. We have placed adult wants ahead of youth needs in our state. But troubled teens are subjects of their social and financial misfortunes and bad peer choices. Remeber, no child is ever born a monster that excuse is too easy. "
Karen wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:06 AM:
" The ages in this write up are 10-15. Where are the parents? It sounds like the city/state are taking over for them. Make them be held accountable also! Maybe if the parents have to do the same "time" as the kids it would be a wake up call! Stop trying to blame everyone else!!!!!!!! "
no wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:05 AM:
" Pat it's not the system that should be doing something it's the communite and the parents. Why should I be paying for kids, the parents need to be doing there job and supervising them. Plus the schools need to be more flexable because they file CHINS on kids that really don't have issues, the schools just don't want to deal with them. Come on Cheyenne schools you need to be a service to and not be part of the problems. I think the system is harming a lot of kids by sending them away for things that many adults in Cheyenne did as kids because parents and the communite have forgotten what it was like to be a kid and what they did. "
TS wrote on Jun 13, 2008 9:02 AM:
" I don't believe it is the jail system creating the monsters. It is todays society! If society expects the children to uphold the laws in the community then let the parents parent their children accordingly. There are far to many watchful eyes when parents are correcting their children. I feel it makes the parents feel as if they have no options because they risk being investigated or worse having their children removed from the home. Thats when they end up in trouble and maybe in jail or some type of youth facility. What does society say then? Oh, the parents did not do their job raising theit child so now the system will! As a 49 year old adult I remember all to well the importance of respect for adults and others property. I remember the look and the fell of punishment doled out by my parents. The thought of getting in trouble and then having to face them was enough to know that it was not worth it. "
JIm F wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:51 AM:
" This article presents only one side of the argument. What you're saying is that if everyone else jumps off of a bridge, we should too? If you're for a change, give us the whole story.
How effective is the current system handling juvenile cases? Give us some stats on repeat offenders. What does law enforcement have to say? How does this info stack up against the stats from other states? "
How effective is the current system handling juvenile cases? Give us some stats on repeat offenders. What does law enforcement have to say? How does this info stack up against the stats from other states? "
Patrick J. Leslie wrote on Jun 13, 2008 8:39 AM:
" I have to agree with Beth Evans on how the money spent on incarcerating these non-violent offenders could be better spent. The "war" on drugs is a supreme waste of money because it targets the supply side of the problem rather than the demand side. If those billions of dollars were spent on drug education, treatment, and rehabilitation, the demand side would decrease substantially which would inevitably cause the supply side to dry up (or at least be decreased to a much more manageable level). Without a demand you have no need - let alone profit - for a supply. WAKE UP AMERICA: the war on drugs isn't working so a new approach needs to be tried! "
Pat W wrote on Jun 13, 2008 7:30 AM:
" You asked,"Are we Creating Monsters" I believe the monsters have already been created. Now it is up to the legal system to figure out the best way to deal with them. Perhaps with all of the gangs and other problems going on in Cheyenne, we should consider being a little harsher. If young people know they aren't going to be punished, what do they have to lose, they may as well try anything that think might be fun. Why not, if there are no consiquenses? Maybe we need to quit worrying so much about how jail will make them feel, and consentrate on how it may improve there future if they are taught they have to take responsibility for their actions. "
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Ralphinphnx wrote on Jun 20, 2008 11:59 PM:
Ralph please? Sorry
about that and yes I
know Baretta said,
"If you can't do the
time,then don't do the
crime"okay now? I say
throw the little brats
into a Tent City Jail
and Put Them To Work
on A Chain Gang,and Feed them green baloney and water and
no tv and watch how
fast they shape up after you expose them
to America's Toughest
Sheriff Joe Methods!
Stop Pampering Them! "